G Date with DWM toggle - need help - Page 2

sthomp · 01-31-2014, 09:21 PM

sheepherder...Good point, I missed that subtlety. Yes, now that I look at it from that standpoint, there is a different font...actually looks like they used 9s upside down for the 6s under the barrel.
The more we see of this pistol, the more questions arise. It looks like it was "built up" from any number of unrelated parts. I guess there is enough G Date to it to call it a G Date mis-match. Given the fairly nice holster, I think it's safe to say I'm in to the pistol at under $1K ($1095 total with holster and tool delivered). Here's a couple of pics of the holster. I'll run it by Jerry Burney for his comments, but I think it's safe to evaluate it at $150. It's a 1941 dated A. Fischer hardshell.

ithacaartist · 02-01-2014, 01:18 AM

I looked at the pics again, and the one of the front of the frame under the barrel makes me wonder... Notice how the upper seems to protrude just slightly proud of the frame? Notice also the irregularity of the curved surface related? Could this frame have been re-numbered?

mrerick · 02-01-2014, 09:17 AM

Here is my refinished "G" date receiver... This picture shows the letter without any fillers.

And David's observation looks accurate to me. The front of the frame looks ground back, renumbered and refinished.

DavidJayUden · 02-01-2014, 09:18 AM

Good point, David. The way the forward curve comes up unevenly, and the tool marks have bothered me too. The upper to lower fit may suggest that the lower has been shaved.
But then again I suppose that we have killed this horse pretty dead by now. It is still an interesting shooter at a good price.
dju

ithacaartist · 02-01-2014, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

But then again I suppose that we have killed this horse pretty dead by now. It is still an interesting shooter at a good price.
dju

When posting, I had the feeling that I was giving that horse one last nudge with my toe. And the story ends happily, nonetheless!

sthomp · 02-01-2014, 10:47 AM

ithacaartist...yes, I see the step from receiver to frame...about a fingernail thickness. Plus what looks like brush or wire wheel marks on the rounded area in front of the take down lever, suggesting serious re-work. All in all, I think we can put a fork in this one and close with David's line..."I suppose that we have killed this horse pretty dead by now. It is still an interesting shooter at a good price."
Many thanks to all for your interest and comments...extremely helpful. Steve

mrerick · 02-01-2014, 11:10 AM

Steve,

Your photos are so well done, and there are so many interesting things about this Luger, that I think this should qualify as a "sticky"...

It amazes me when I consider the effort that went into this Luger, and the number of very subtle things that can be observed about it, the tool and the holster.

Clearly someone wanted to increase the rarity and value while they created a matching Luger, yet it was sold at shooter prices to you. With all that effort there was apparently no financial payback. Interesting, to say the least.

klaus 3338 · 02-01-2014, 11:26 AM

Sorry but your holster is an Imperial holster: the year 1941 a the Nazi eagle are added later.
The tool is a fake and made in our days.
The number on the frame may be ok but it is not the correct a G- date frame that is made in 1935. The kind of number should be the same as on the barrel. Your Luger is a parts gun.
Regards from Germany.
Klaus

sthomp · 02-01-2014, 12:11 PM

Clearly someone wanted to increase the rarity and value while they created a matching Luger, yet it was sold at shooter prices to you. With all that effort there was apparently no financial payback. Interesting, to say the least.

mrerick...yes, I've been meaning to comment on this point, but keep forgetting. I think there is a good explanation...
I talked directly to the guy I bought it from to negotiate the sale. He was fairly candid about losing a "bunch" on it. Apparently he paid much more and only later found out some of what we now know. He was pretty square in his representation of it to me, therefore the "reasonable" price to me....although, I think he missed a few things, which are now coming out of the woodwork...thanks to you guys.
Yes, this has been a great learning experience...with minimal financial damage. Steve

sthomp · 02-01-2014, 05:03 PM

Klaus...I didn't recognize it, but you are correct. I just heard from Jerry B. and he said the same thing about the holster. Well, that fits with the story of the pistol and the tool...one giant scam! I appreciate your several comments...Steve

DavidJayUden · 02-01-2014, 06:30 PM

You mean to tell me that THEY EVEN BOOSTED THE HOLSTER!!!???
Is nothing sacred?
dju

DavidJayUden · 02-01-2014, 06:32 PM

And Sthomp, please don't feel that we are picking on you, but it's just rarely that we get so much to talk about on the same gun...
dju

sthomp · 02-01-2014, 11:23 PM

David...not at all...it's been a real eye-opener and I've really learned a lot in a very short time. I still plan to get together with GT next week for a post mortem...and let him scold me for being so gullible...I bought my first Luger with his guidance several years ago and generally he signs off on what I buy, P38 and P08. I'm lucky to have him living only a few miles away. But I went solo on this one.
I really don't think I'll take much of a bath on this...but life is like that...win some, lose some, and hopefully learn a lot.
OBTW, I found where that tool came from quite by accident. I was cruising the Luger related listings on Ebay and there it was...a listing for EXACTLY this tool..."byf41" marked on the tab...ten available for buy now of $8.95 ea...Steve

DavidJayUden · 02-01-2014, 11:44 PM

You did not get hurt on this one at all. And you know that if I saw this sitting on the shelf of the LGS I'd have been all over it too...
dju

01-31-2014, 09:21 PM	#21
sthomp User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 50 Thanks: 2 Thanked 26 Times in 12 Posts	sheepherder...Good point, I missed that subtlety. Yes, now that I look at it from that standpoint, there is a different font...actually looks like they used 9s upside down for the 6s under the barrel. The more we see of this pistol, the more questions arise. It looks like it was "built up" from any number of unrelated parts. I guess there is enough G Date to it to call it a G Date mis-match. Given the fairly nice holster, I think it's safe to say I'm in to the pistol at under $1K ($1095 total with holster and tool delivered). Here's a couple of pics of the holster. I'll run it by Jerry Burney for his comments, but I think it's safe to evaluate it at $150. It's a 1941 dated A. Fischer hardshell. Attached Thumbnails

02-01-2014, 01:18 AM	#22
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,376 Thanks: 7,448 Thanked 2,613 Times in 1,380 Posts	I looked at the pics again, and the one of the front of the frame under the barrel makes me wonder... Notice how the upper seems to protrude just slightly proud of the frame? Notice also the irregularity of the curved surface related? Could this frame have been re-numbered? __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

02-01-2014, 09:17 AM	#23
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	G Date Receiver Photo Here is my refinished "G" date receiver... This picture shows the letter without any fillers. And David's observation looks accurate to me. The front of the frame looks ground back, renumbered and refinished. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-01-2014, 11:10 AM	#27
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Steve, Your photos are so well done, and there are so many interesting things about this Luger, that I think this should qualify as a "sticky"... It amazes me when I consider the effort that went into this Luger, and the number of very subtle things that can be observed about it, the tool and the holster. Clearly someone wanted to increase the rarity and value while they created a matching Luger, yet it was sold at shooter prices to you. With all that effort there was apparently no financial payback. Interesting, to say the least. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

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02-01-2014, 09:18 AM	#24
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Good point, David. The way the forward curve comes up unevenly, and the tool marks have bothered me too. The upper to lower fit may suggest that the lower has been shaved. But then again I suppose that we have killed this horse pretty dead by now. It is still an interesting shooter at a good price. dju

02-01-2014, 10:47 AM	#26
sthomp User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 50 Thanks: 2 Thanked 26 Times in 12 Posts	ithacaartist...yes, I see the step from receiver to frame...about a fingernail thickness. Plus what looks like brush or wire wheel marks on the rounded area in front of the take down lever, suggesting serious re-work. All in all, I think we can put a fork in this one and close with David's line..."I suppose that we have killed this horse pretty dead by now. It is still an interesting shooter at a good price." Many thanks to all for your interest and comments...extremely helpful. Steve

02-01-2014, 11:26 AM	#28
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 519 Thanks: 0 Thanked 417 Times in 162 Posts	Sorry but your holster is an Imperial holster: the year 1941 a the Nazi eagle are added later. The tool is a fake and made in our days. The number on the frame may be ok but it is not the correct a G- date frame that is made in 1935. The kind of number should be the same as on the barrel. Your Luger is a parts gun. Regards from Germany. Klaus

02-01-2014, 12:11 PM	#29
sthomp User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 50 Thanks: 2 Thanked 26 Times in 12 Posts	Clearly someone wanted to increase the rarity and value while they created a matching Luger, yet it was sold at shooter prices to you. With all that effort there was apparently no financial payback. Interesting, to say the least. mrerick...yes, I've been meaning to comment on this point, but keep forgetting. I think there is a good explanation... I talked directly to the guy I bought it from to negotiate the sale. He was fairly candid about losing a "bunch" on it. Apparently he paid much more and only later found out some of what we now know. He was pretty square in his representation of it to me, therefore the "reasonable" price to me....although, I think he missed a few things, which are now coming out of the woodwork...thanks to you guys. Yes, this has been a great learning experience...with minimal financial damage. Steve

02-01-2014, 05:03 PM	#30
sthomp User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 50 Thanks: 2 Thanked 26 Times in 12 Posts	Klaus...I didn't recognize it, but you are correct. I just heard from Jerry B. and he said the same thing about the holster. Well, that fits with the story of the pistol and the tool...one giant scam! I appreciate your several comments...Steve

02-01-2014, 06:30 PM	#31
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	You mean to tell me that THEY EVEN BOOSTED THE HOLSTER!!!??? Is nothing sacred? dju

02-01-2014, 06:32 PM	#32
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	And Sthomp, please don't feel that we are picking on you, but it's just rarely that we get so much to talk about on the same gun... dju

02-01-2014, 11:23 PM	#33
sthomp User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 50 Thanks: 2 Thanked 26 Times in 12 Posts	David...not at all...it's been a real eye-opener and I've really learned a lot in a very short time. I still plan to get together with GT next week for a post mortem...and let him scold me for being so gullible...I bought my first Luger with his guidance several years ago and generally he signs off on what I buy, P38 and P08. I'm lucky to have him living only a few miles away. But I went solo on this one. I really don't think I'll take much of a bath on this...but life is like that...win some, lose some, and hopefully learn a lot. OBTW, I found where that tool came from quite by accident. I was cruising the Luger related listings on Ebay and there it was...a listing for EXACTLY this tool..."byf41" marked on the tab...ten available for buy now of $8.95 ea...Steve

02-01-2014, 11:44 PM	#34
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	You did not get hurt on this one at all. And you know that if I saw this sitting on the shelf of the LGS I'd have been all over it too... dju