California shipping

[wlyon]

I need some help. What are the rules for shipping a luger from Montana to California C&R to C&R ? Thanks Bill

[beachbaker]

Bill, a c&r handgun must be shipped to a ffl01. You can not ship direct to a 03 it must go through the dros process. Curt

[wlyon]

Thanks Curt. I found a message on the internet from the California Office of Attorney General stating that ."California Penal Code Section 2755 prohibits all Federal Firearms Licensees (FFL) other than Type 3 or type 6 from shipping firearms to an FFL in California unless ,prior to delivery ,the FFL intending to deliver, sell or transfer the firearms obtains a verification approval number from the California Department of Justice (CADOJ) Bureau of Firearms" From this it would appear that C&R are not covered? It is all very confusing to me. Thanks for the help[. Bill

[Zorba]

This is why I don't have a C&R - its useless in the People's Republic for handguns (Long guns OK).

[beachbaker]

Bill, the California ffl01 receiving the handgun just sends a form to the sender acknowledging the gun is on the c&r list and is eligible for shipping into California. It is not a big deal and if you have a local ffl01 you know he can help you. The good thing is often it is cheaper to ship ffl01 to ffl01 which off sets any small cost your ffl01 could charge to ship. If you have a c&r in California and a COE (Certificate of Eligibility) there is no waiting period to receive the gun so as soon as it arrives you take it home. Curt

[Maestro]

Federal law has required interstate transfers to use FFLs since 1968. There are exceptions for Curio and Relic firearms for holders of the C&R FFL, and for inheritance. CA FFL's are required to collect sales tax on the value of guns transferred even if the seller is not a dealer. Here is something that causes confusion - when the term "FFL holder" is used it does NOT apply to an 03 (curio and relic) license holder. So if the gun in question is 1) a long gun, 2) a C&R gun and 3) at least 50 years old, you can ship it directly to an 03 holder. Note that any shipment of a handgun MUST go to a licensed dealer for transfer.

Shipping Firearms to California

The following is a summary of what can and cannot be shipped into California. A major source of this information is taken from the forums at http://www.calguns.net . Also, a good reference which details a lot of this information can be found at http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Main_Page . Calguns has become the best source of information on the legalities of firearms ownership in California, and the spinoff Calguns Foundation is a major driving force behind lawsuits filed to challenge the gun control laws which exist in that state. In light of this, the information below will be updated as laws in California change (very likely for the better)

The definition of a firearm in California is the same as the federal definition. IE, receiver or frame made after 1898, it’s a firearm. Prior to 1898, it’s an antique and firearms laws do not apply.

California Firearms License Check (CFLC)

The enactment of the California Firearms License Check requires a form to be filled out and shipped with the long arm for transactions between a California FFL 01 and an Out-of-state FFL 01. It is illegal for a California FFL 01 to accept a firearms shipment without this form (thus the hammer falls on the CA FFL 01). See the overview at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcoverview.php Enrolling in the program takes all of 5 minutes.

Ostensibly, the CFLC program is designed to ensure that the California FFL 01 dealer you are shipping a firearm to is a bona fide dealer approved by the state to receive incoming firearms. In my humble opinion, it is an attempt to play off the paranoia of the nation’s FFL 01’s to reduce the number of firearms being brought into the state. As an out-of-state FFL 01, when you participate in the CFLC program you are (1) ensuring that your firearm is being shipped to a valid California dealer, and (2) making sure the gun grabbers don’t get what they want.

There is, of course, an exception to every rule. Any FFL 03 or 06 involvements in the transaction are exempt. Individuals shipping to California FFL 01’s are also exempt, since you are not an FFL. So shipping a Curio and Relic to an FFL 03 in California is just the same as shipping to any other FFL 03 anywhere else in the United States.

First FAQ: I am not an FFL but I want to ship a firearm to a California FFL. Do I have to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number before shipping a firearm to California?

No. The requirement to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number only applies to holders of valid FFLs (FFL 01's).

Second FAQ: Are any California FFLs exempt from the CFLC verification approval requirement?

Yes. The CFLC program does not apply to FFLs with Type 03 (curio and relic collectors) and Type 06 (ammunition dealers) licenses.

Long arms

In general, long arms (rifles, shotguns) are perfectly legal in California. However, there are certain centerfire, semiauto firearms which are illegal in California. The best way to find out is to consult the interactive ID Flowchart here:

http://calnra.com/cgi-bin/flowchart.cgi?No=No&qq=1

NOTE ON BLACK RIFLES: Be aware that just because a rifle is an AR or AK style rifle doesn’t mean it’s illegal in California. If the AR or AK style rifle is not listed here http://calnra.com/cgi-bin/flowchart.cgi?Yes=Yes&qq=2 then it can potentially be configured into a California-legal firearm. I would recommend visiting the forums at http://www.calguns.net to ask questions if you want to ship California-legal black rifles into the state. The details are a little beyond the scope of this write-up.).

Note also that magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds cannot be sold, sent, or imported to California. However, a 15 round magazines can be disassembled and the parts sent into California. If the buyer re-assembles the magazines inside California, they are violating the law.

Handguns

California currently has a Safe Handgun Roster listing the handguns that are approved for sale to the general public in the state of California (there are exemptions for LEO’s and others). The approved handgun list can be found here: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ . Note that a lawsuit was filed on 1 May 2009 challenging the constitutionality of the Safe Handgun Roster…the first in a series of lawsuits which followed the 9th District Incorporation ruling.

Any Curio and Relic handgun can be shipped to California. However, the C&R gun *must* be shipped to an FFL 01. This means that the CFLC comes into play. NOTE however, that a Californian who owns an FFL 03 can drive out of state, buy the C&R handgun, and bring it back into the state himself (He then has a certain number of days the register the handgun once he has it back in the state). So, for example a CA FFL 03 could go to J&G Sales and pick up a C&R handgun….just like any FFL 03 in any state can do (and you can call J&G Sales and ask them. They do a lot of a business with Californians and appear to have a good understanding of CA gun laws).

Ammunition

In general, any ammunition except tracer and/or armor-piercing rounds can be shipped to anywhere in California. The exceptions are that ammunition must be shipped to an FFL 01 in Los Angeles *city*, Oakland, Sacramento, Yolo County, and Marin County. The best way to figure out if your buyer lives there is to simply check his zip code. If it falls within these areas, then he’ll need to supply you with an FFL 01’s address. Note that Los Angeles the city is not the same as Los Angeles County.

Why go to all the trouble? Or, Screw those liberal SOB’s in CA!

Simply put, the best way to roll back gun control in California is to sue, sue, sue. However, going through the judicial system to overturn unconstitutional law takes a long time, lots of resources, and a well-coordinated effort. Obviously this requires strong support from fellow gun owners…both within the state and without. For in-state gun owners, there are many ways to support “The Cause”. Most of those ways start with a visit to http://www.calguns.net . For out-of-state gun owners and dealers, the best way to support “The Cause” is to GET AS MANY GUNS AS POSSIBLE INTO CALIFORNIA. Remember, California is the “front line” in the fight for 2nd Amendment rights, and “front line troops” always need strong “rear echelon” support to stay in the fight.

With California’s (very likely unconstitutional but still on the books) gun laws, getting as many guns into California can seem like a hopeless cause. They can be confusing, muddied, and difficult to understand. This creates (and has created) hesitation and refusal to ship firearms into the state, even when the specific firearm is perfectly legal in the state. The result of this is that the gun grabbers win. None of us want the gun grabbers to win.

Remember, we are all Americans. There is no “us and them” when it comes to California gun owners and gun owners in other states.

-Jason

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...p?f=87&t=77714

[lew1]

Originally Posted by beachbaker

Bill, the California ffl01 receiving the handgun just sends a form to the sender acknowledging the gun is on the c&r list and is eligible for shipping into California. It is not a big deal and if you have a local ffl01 you know he can help you. The good thing is often it is cheaper to ship ffl01 to ffl01 which off sets any small cost your ffl01 could charge to ship. If you have a c&r in California and a COE (Certificate of Eligibility) there is no waiting period to receive the gun so as soon as it arrives you take it home. Curt

Still less tape and less effort not to sell to someone in California.

[wlyon]

I am assuming a type 7 FFLl is also good to ship to? Bill

[tharpo]

Not really a lot of red tape. Just like most other states it is 100% legal to ship a C&R handgun to an 01 FFL in California. If the shipper is not an 01 than no CFLC license check is necessary.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by tharpo

Not really a lot of red tape. Just like most other states it is 100% legal to ship a C&R handgun to an 01 FFL in California. If the shipper is not an 01 than no CFLC license check is necessary.

We in California lose out on perfectly legal purchases

Well I am in California and stand to lose out. If I do I would look elsewhere.

However I entirely understand an FFL wishing to refuse business with California.
If you give into this extra and arbitrary demand beyond that of any other state, what is next?
What will be the next state to step up and add some extra restrictions on people outside of their state that wish to do business?
Will California upgrade its policy in the future to include more?

When you play along with new arbitrary rules, it gives the green light to everyone else to make new rules as well.
Over time that means the piling on of additional rules.
Instead of remaining a simple process it gets more complicated as each state becomes different and it is no longer uniform federal requirements.
What would you do if every state had its own special arbitrary requirement to ship firearms to an FFL in it? Some more difficult than the other?
Requirements that each state altered every so many years?

It of course would interfere with interstate commerce, and be a royal headache.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-526547.html

Shipping to California requires very little effort. ...

What really chaps my hide is all of those who feel that they are teaching the California legislature a stern lesson by refusing to ship to CA. Those in the CA legislature voting for more gun control are pleased as punch to hear that they have slowed down the trade in legal firearms. Or they don't care either way and are just happy to ride anti-gun sentiment to re-election.

The only ones being punished are the firearms owners and potential customers who of course already hate California gun law and vote against it at every opportunity.

California Gun Control wins a victory every time someone refuses to ship firearms to California.