1926 dated Luger holster

[Don M]

I don't pretend to be a holster expert but I believe that Luger holsters from the mid-1920s are relatively rare. Pictured below is one owned by Dr. Richard Preuss of Germany. It was with a 1920-dated DWM with Berlin Schupo markings that he wished to discuss with me. Since I thought the holster might be relatively rare, I asked and received permission to post his photos.

It is not possible to determine from the photos or by direct examination whether the manufacture date is 1925 or 1926 but, since the holster is of the "new" pattern introduced in 1926, it must be 1926. This would make it one of the first produced in the new pattern. I don't believe I have seen this maker mark before.

[lugerholsterrepair]

I don't pretend to be a holster expert but I believe that Luger holsters from the mid-1920s are relatively rare. Yes, I don't pretend to be either but I know they are!

Very nice photo's and pretty much helps to establish the 1925-6 changeover from the old to new pattern. Thanks Don!

[Norme]

Hi Don and Jerry, I'm a little surprised to see that this holster doesn't have the horizontal row of stitches that secures the inner liner to the back, a feature of the "new pattern" holster.
Regards, Norm

[Edward Tinker]

I would have to look

I consider the 1926 holster to essentially be for new Simson's, but that is not fully true

They are WaA18 marked if I remember right, marked on the front and 1926 marked.

I have never seen any 1919-1925 dated holsters, so if out there, they are very rare.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Norm, Yes..you would think so..This stitching line that secures the inner liner to the back was used on Artillery holsters so it was not unknown. The maker of this holster Don shows is not a large well known maker. It could be the design change was in the development stage and not all of it was incorporated yet..or this maker just didn't get the memo on it.

One other thing of note on this..At one time it had the Police cleaning rod holder apparatus installed in the top. It would be interesting to know if it was original to the holster or installed later..

[Don M]

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Yes, I don't pretend to be either but I know they are!

Jerry, you don't have to pretend. You is one!

[alanint]

It is also stitched for an additional tool in front of the traditional tool pouch.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Doug..I am missing what you are saying? I don't doubt it but please explain? The tool pouch is sewn in a little weird, from the inside it appears to be sewn under the edge of the hinge but from the outside not so much.

One other interesting facet I just noticed..This holster was made as a Police for sure. Take a good look at the shape of the loading tool pouch top. See how short and round it is? This is typical of a Police tool pouch top. The Army type was slightly more elongated and pointed. Enough that you can easily notice this slight variation in shape.

[alanint]

Jerry,
I was also pointing out the "C" or "U" patterned stitch marks in front of the typical tool pouch stitching, which was for the Police cleaning rod. I missed that you had pointed this out earlier.

[wlyon]

On 8/13/2012 I posted another C.Pose 1925 dated holster. It also had the provision for the pouch cleaning rod (removed) and replaced with a normal tool pouch. I suspect the holster Don shows is also 1925. I doubt if many of these were made. I have a couple ww1 holsters made by C. Pose. Bill

[Don M]

Does this move the date of introduction of the new pattern to 1925?

[lugerholsterrepair]

Does this move the date of introduction of the new pattern to 1925?

If Bill's C.Pose 1925 dated holster is in the new pattern then yes...

[wlyon]

Don
This has always been confusing to me. According to Gortz and Sturgess the stitched lining began in 1918 and the new style holster in the 1920's. I am sure none of this occurred overnight. With the many different holster makers I would say mid 20's or so is close enough. Hopefully Jerry can help with this. How many 1920's military holsters has he seen in his shop and were they the new and/or old style. I am quite sure that 1925 dated military style holsters are rare and a transition form from old to new style. Bill

[lugerholsterrepair]

Bill..Stitching at the bottom edge of the lining was common on Artillery holsters in WW1 but not on 4" regular holsters.
The changes seen in the new pattern holsters took place at the earliest as far as I know in 1925. 1919 to 1924-25-26 or even 27 and 28 holsters are just so rare it is hard to determine exactly what's what. Seems that 1929 was the next big holster year and a lot of Police holsters were made then.

So if your C.Pose 1925 dated holster is in the new style with or without the lining stitching we can determine the new style took place in 1925 not 1926.

[Don M]

I found Bill's earlier post: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=28799. It is dated 8/13/2012. Looks to be identical to Dr. Preuss' holster --- new pattern. After some effort, date was determined to be 1925.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Don, Yes! Thanks..An interesting thread in it's own right. Thanks for finding it. Very clearly a 1925 holster Bill has.

[Richard]

Thank you, Don, for posting the pics of my holster!

I add one pic showing a marking inside of it: 1.B.
( 1. Bataillon ??)

may be, It's also of interest....

regards
Richard

[Don M]

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

One other thing of note on this..At one time it had the Police cleaning rod holder apparatus installed in the top.

Jerry, why is the cleaning rod holder apparatus characteristic of a police holster? In the section you wrote for Police Lugers on p.177 there are illustrations of such holders on Army holsters. Is the removal of this device suggestive of police service?

I am reluctant to believe this was a police holster because:

1. It has a military-style closure. By 1925, I would have thought that the police preference for the vertical strap and stud would have been established.

2. The marking Richard has just posted does not appear to be police. By 1925, police markings had been well-established and this does not look like any I have observed.

[Richard]

I also thought that I have a Reichswehrholster with later removed pouch of the cleaning rod.

The holster came together with a police marked P.08 - but the pistol leaved the police before the introduction of the Schiwy safety - and went to the Reichswehr - where, may be, it was married with the holster

[lugerholsterrepair]

Don, Interesting questions to be sure. The ONLY time we see the cleaning rod rig in what is known as an Army holster is 1934. Many Army holsters built for WW1 were converted to what I have always thought was Police use using the Army closure and having the cleaning rod rig installed. So we will naturally see Army holsters with this conversion but no Police closure conversion. However it could be that the small loop cleaning rod and the rig used to hold it in is a purely Army fixture. I really have no way of knowing.

There were early pure Police holsters like the RG and some that employed the upstrap closure in a teardrop..these might have been the beginnings of the design we consider to be Police today. I have seen a few earlier dates but 1929 seems to be the most prolific year for the standard Police style.

Have you ever seen a vertical strap and stud dated before 1929? That is another date of appearance that could be nailed down with the help of fellow collectors. So if anyone out there has a vertical strap and stud dated before 1929 please post what you have and perhaps we can work backwards to the earliest known Police vertical strap and stud .

That being said we go back to why I believe this is a Police holster and I pointed out in an earlier post the top closure flap on the loading tool pouch. This shape is seen on Police holsters and I have never seen it on an Army.

The marking you say is not like any Police you have seen..I agree it sounds Army to me. This period in history was very fluid and it would not surprise me to see holsters going back and forth from Army to Police and back again. I am sure anything could happen.

Is the removal of this device suggestive of police service? Perhaps so..The only known use of the cleaning rod in the top was by the Army in 1934. I really wish I had more time for research..Most of the conjecture I have is from what I see go through here and I have said many times before..I am not a historical holster expert. I would say a good study would be of Police photo's where they are cleaning Lugers to observe what is being used.