seized slide

[kraut_60]

I got a Luger with a completely seized slide. Soaked everything overnight, no change. The pictures show the largest opening, or movement I get out of the slide. There is a mechanical lock up, somewhere.
Don't have a history on it of who did what to this gun.
What other options do I have, other then drilling the barrel shaft bolt out?

Attachment 31038



Thanks

[kzullick]

I would try soaking it longer, and gently tap it every so often with a rawhide hammer or rubber mallet allowing the fluid to penetrate. Are you able to field strip it at all? Or is the entire barrel extension "frozen"?

[Vlim]

You did take the safety off, didn't you?

The only thing I can think of, is that it catches on the holdopen latch. That is an L-shaped piece of metal with a small leaf spring. Normally it is down, but the magazine button will push it upwards when the magazine is empty. If this pistol was stored for a long time with the magazine inside, chances are that the holdopen is stuck in the upward position.

You can reach it through the magazine opening.

[kraut_60]

Good stuff there gentlemen. Gives me a couple things to try.
I'll let you know

Thanks

[kraut_60]

No luck, yet. Also, on a functional Luger, you can push on the barrel a get a "spring load" affect. This one will not move the slide by 1mm.

[tater134]

I had a similar problem with my Luger and it turned out that the front of the frame rails was pinched inward slightly and was binding up the gun. Can you move the takedown latch at all?

[kraut_60]

No. The latch was badly bent when I got it. I assume somebody tried to open it before.
What are my options at this point?

[kzullick]

Have you made any progress?

[ithacaartist]

Here's something to try: I'd check the overall assembly, holdopen and safety first, as described above. It may be possible to move the upper backward by the influence of a padded bar clamp setup. Locate one end of the clamp at the muzzle, the other at the rear of the frame, and gently squeeze until the locking bolt will rotate. Don't use a lot of force, try to "feel" what's going on as you go. It may also help to warm the gun up a little bit in the toaster oven, maybe 200 degrees, which I do not think will affect springs and other heat treated parts.
If the front of the frame has been pinching the upper, you may see evidence of it after field stripping.

[John Sabato]

Okay, here is my best guess at long distance troubleshooting.

First of all, make sure the gun is NOT on SAFE as suggested by VLIM. The word "Gesichert" should be covered up by the safety lever. If the gun is on SAFE, then the safety bar will block the sear as the toggle is pulled back and won't allow the sear to slip over the firing pin, thus preventing the toggle/slide from moving more than your photo is showing.

IF the gun is not on safe, then I agree with VLIM:

I see a lot of established surface rust. What I suspect may have happened is that the gun was stored with an empty magazine for an extended amount of time without lubrication.

Since the magazine button is what pushes up the holdopen device, I suspect that the holdopen device may have rusted in the UP position preventing the toggle from fully opening.

Please try to post a photo looking straight down into the opening between the bolt and chamber with the toggle as open as you can get it. The holdopen may have broken or was improperly installed in the first place. Seeing this photo may clear up some of the confusion.

Remove the grips and submerge the gun in penetrating oil as a last resort.

DO NOT DRILL ANYTHING... cause you will destroy whatever value the gun still has if you do so.

Waiting to see further photos...

[SIGP2101]

First step. Do not rush!

Second step(s):

Remove grips,
Remove take down lever. (can you rotate this at all?)
Remove side plate
Remove sear spring
Remove sear
Remove magazine release button spring
Remove magazine button itself
Remove ejector. (not extractor)

After all this is done it will be easier to trouble shoot. Do this first and we will proceed with next step.

[John Sabato]

I think the toggle would have to be open in order to remove the ejector without breaking it, eh?

Try this...

Make sure the safety is off.

Hold the pistol in your shooting hand and press the muzzle hard against a solid surface such as table top or wall. with the slide pushed back as far as you can get it to go, try to turn the locking bolt (takedown lever) 90 degrees clockwise. If you can do that, the slide should come right off the front of the frame. Then you can diagnose the toggle issue.

[SIGP2101]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

I think the toggle would have to be open in order to remove the ejector without breaking it, eh?

You are right 100% + slide will have to be moved forward enough to clear the ears.

[SIGP2101]

Originally Posted by kraut_60

No luck, yet. Also, on a functional Luger, you can push on the barrel a get a "spring load" affect. This one will not move the slide by 1mm.

Is slide rust shot or it will move slightly or not at all? Could it be that she is deactivated??
On the second pic I can see a strange piece of metal that doesn't belong there. Here is a pic how things should look like under neath the slide. Actually no, it looks Ok, I was expecting to see feeding ramp there not the slide stop cavity.

[John Sabato]

I think the "piece" of metal that is visible in the slightly out of focus photo could possibly be a bent holdopen spring jammed into the wrong place...

[kraut_60]

Thanks for all your suggestions.
I finally got her apart. I was able to disconnect the main spring toggle and soaked it some more in WD 40 and Kroll. The toggle removal gave me another 2 or 3mm of slide. Enough to get a larger screw driver in there. A couple of careful pulls allowed me to open the slide lock.
To make a long story short, the frame was rusted to the slide. Never seen this on a gun before.

Well, TLC time

Thanks for all your suggestions.

Alex

[Edward Tinker]

So, Alex, why did you pick a derogatory term for a german collecting forum?


Admin

[alanint]

Your Luger appears to be an East German VoPo rework. The takedown lever is certainly East german and the markings appear to be as well.

Can you photograph the markings and post, just to see what you have?
Also, are your grips brown or black?, (your last photo gives them a brown tinge). Your grips may be valuable and photos of both inside and outside would be interesting.

[SIGP2101]

So it was rust, too bad, it would have been better if something else was cause of the problem.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

So, Alex, why did you pick a derogatory term for a german collecting forum?


Admin

Ed,

I can't speak for Alex, but its usage here is possibly a phenomenon common to other "derogatory" terms--in certain contexts. Some African Americans refer to each other using the "N" word. Some male homosexuals refer to each other as "f*gs". It becomes a problem when a person outside a group uses a derogatory term in reference to the particular group or individual. Those within a group may use such terms to refer to themselves and other group members with impunity and full license, and in some cases, believe it or not, endearment.

David