Luger Target Trigger Modification

[Michael Zeleny]

Originally Posted by Blastattack

I'm not sure I understand. Clearly the Swiss devised a method to improve the trigger pull of their Lugers. I cannot and will not argue the effectiveness and relative merits of their modification. However, that does not explain why the method described in the article is inherently wrong or dangerous. It simply seems like another way to skin a cat. If done properly, with great care and attention, as well as the proper tools, I cannot see how it would be any less effective than what the Swiss devised.

Both DWM and W+F Parabellum factory manuals identify the trigger pull as possessed of a Druckpunkt, i.e. two staged. We could go on to talk sear engagement geometry, but I'm quite happy to rest my case on this appeal to the bona fide supreme Luger authority. The distinct stages are especially noticeable on Swiss M1929 Lugers.

[Blastattack]

Originally Posted by Michael Zeleny

Both DWM and W+F Parabellum factory manuals identify the trigger pull as possessed of a Druckpunkt, i.e. two staged. We could go on to talk sear engagement geometry, but I'm quite happy to rest my case on this appeal to the bona fide supreme Luger authority. The distinct stages are especially noticeable on Swiss M1929 Lugers.

I'm just saying that in my limited experience with Luger the trigger has not resembled anything close to a two stage pull. Maybe it was and I just didn't feel it, I don't know. It just felt heavy, period. Regardless, you have not even attempted to defend your original statement that "It is an unsafe procedure that cannot be recommended under any circumstances". How is it unsafe and why would you not recommend it? If properly executed by a competent machinist, what specific procedure renders the modifications unsafe?As to the elimination of the first stage; so what? Just because something is or was designed as such, does not make it right or better than anything else. Why can't a well tuned Luger trigger emulate that of a well tuned 1911? Unless you plan on illustrating why these modifications are dangerous, I see no reason for you to bother mentioning it.

I'm more than happy to listen to a counter argument, but arguing something based on status quo simply does not fly.

[Michael Zeleny]

Originally Posted by Blastattack

Why can't a well tuned Luger trigger emulate that of a well tuned 1911?

Because a striker fired pistol requires a broader safety margin in sear engagement, than a hammer fired one.

[G.T.]

take up isn't undesirable or critical, and as mentioned earlier, probably only a few ounces... probalby need not be addressed for any purpose?? Over travel is probably not wanted.. especially excessive.. I'm pretty sure most lugers don't suffer from this anyway.. most of the ones i have had broke clean at the far end of the trigger travel anyway... But, that being said... Pull weight reduction is probably important, and also a crisp sear break, which probably will require some part modification. ...???... That's where one needs to dwell... two distinct stages are necessary in a Luger.. Not really a two stage trigger... ,,, Want to spend some time, it can be done.. Probably as good as any in a one off situation.. Hard to beat the 1911 in this arena. But, I happen to like Lugers.....Best to all, til...lat'r...GT

[Michael Zeleny]

Originally Posted by G.T.

take up isn't undesirable or critical, and as mentioned earlier, probably only a few ounces... probalby need not be addressed for any purpose?? Over travel is probably not wanted.. especially excessive.. I'm pretty sure most lugers don't suffer from this anyway.. most of the ones i have had broke clean at the far end of the trigger travel anyway... But, that being said... Pull weight reduction is probably important, and also a crisp sear break, which probably will require some part modification. ...???... That's where one needs to dwell... two distinct stages are necessary in a Luger.. Not really a two stage trigger... ,,, Want to spend some time, it can be done.. Probably as good as any in a one off situation.. Hard to beat the 1911 in this arena. But, I happen to like Lugers.....Best to all, til...lat'r...GT

I am not sure what you are saying, but in the terminology of the article under discussion, the mutually bearing surfaces of the trigger bar and the firing pin are cut at an angle so as to interlock, for reasons of safety. If anyone here is foolish and reckless enough to try this modification at home, I'm willing to bet that I can fire his modified Luger without touching its trigger.

[G.T.]

Hi Michael... well, to keep it short.. a'lot can be done in just the sear notch location.. keeping it a 90% as designed, polished, build up.. cut back, shortened, lengthened, what ever suits the unique demands that each Luger would require.. I'm not saying is SHOULD be done.... I'm just saying it could be done... And, of course, a luger with .020" slop between the cannon ass'y and frame would not be a cantidiate for this type of work!!! ...... As mentioned earlier.. it just takes a crap pot full of parts, and time, and money, and all three escape me! ... .. I've seen it before.. in just about evey thing i ever tried to compete in.. ....Best to you Michael, til...lat'r...GT

[Michael Zeleny]

Originally Posted by G.T.

Hi Michael... well, to keep it short.. a'lot can be done in just the sear notch location.. keeping it a 90% as designed, polished, build up.. cut back, shortened, lengthened, what ever suits the unique demands that each Luger would require.. I'm not saying is SHOULD be done.... I'm just saying it could be done... And, of course, a luger with .020" slop between the cannon ass'y and frame would not be a cantidiate for this type of work!!! ...... As mentioned earlier.. it just takes a crap pot full of parts, and time, and money, and all three escape me! ... .. I've seen it before.. in just about evey thing i ever tried to compete in.. ....Best to you Michael, til...lat'r...GT

I won't argue with anything of that, Gerald. All I can say is that the best Luger trigger pull I have experienced is on a factory target pistol with a stock sear geometry. Here is a record I made with a Lyman electronic trigger gauge, of trigger pull averaged over 10 measurements:

• 7.63x25mm Borchardt C93 SN 1774: 2.59kg
• 9mm Para Krieghoff P08 SN 3249: 3.48kg.
• 7.65mm Para W+F P06/1929 National Match SN 59951: 2.64kg
• 7.65mm Para W+F P06/1929 National Match SN 65721: 2.15kg
• 7.65mm Para W+F P06/1929 SN 71644: 3.80kg
• 7.65mm Para W+F P06/1929 SN 77493: 2.57kg
• 9mm Para SIG P49 SN A204931: 2.88kg
• 9mm Para SIG P49 SN A156213: 2.90kg
• 9mm Para SIG P49 SN A107159: 2.75kg
• 9mm Para SIG P49 SN A105553: 2.56kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-2 SN P74064: 1.86kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-1 SN P77209: 1.94kg
• 7.65mm Para SIG P210-6HF SN P79103: 1.24kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-6HF SN P79136: 1.82kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-6HF SN P79608: 1.20kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-6HF SN P79609: 1.23kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-2 SN P79980: 1.67kg
• 9mm Para SIG P210-6 SN P86618: 1.78kg

All are double pull, with a very crisp stage transition (Druckpunkt). You can tell which guns have been resprung.