Looking For Info About Luger Parts (Pic Heavy)

[mrerick]

Steve, Welcome to the forum.

Sorry for the news you've received, but it's important to be informed.

As Ron mentions, it is not legal to own a Luger and a non-appropriate (original or reproduction) stock. The ATF classifies this combination as a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) and this is considered a NFA Class III firearm which requires special registration and tax stamp transfers.

Artillery Lugers with Artillery Stocks (original or reproduction) and Navy Lugers with Navy Stocks (original or reproduction) and a few rarer combinations are specifically exempted from this through a curio and relic list published by the ATF.

Unfortunately the combination of this stock attached to any Luger would be a SBR. Some speculate that the possession of both objects constitutes "intent" just like owning full auto parts that would fit a AK47 you also owned.

Marc

[Olle]

Originally Posted by mrerick

Artillery Lugers with Artillery Stocks (original or reproduction) and Navy Lugers with Navy Stocks (original or reproduction) and a few rarer combinations are specifically exempted from this through a curio and relic list published by the ATF.

Unfortunately the combination of this stock attached to any Luger would be a SBR. Some speculate that the possession of both objects constitutes "intent" just like owning full auto parts that would fit a AK47 you also owned.

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

Your stock would be legal on a luger with a barrel over 16" and the repro snail drum would require extentive modification to even fit into a real luger. TH

ATF works in mysterious ways... Are you saying that only the original design of these stocks (repro or original) are allowed on these pistols, or are stocks allowed period? I guess that a 16" barrel could make it a rifle, but doesn't it have to be registered as a rifle as well? Reason I'm asking that is that this seems to be an issue when you buy an AR-15 receiver, as two identical receivers can be either rifle or pistol.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by Olle

ATF works in mysterious ways... Are you saying that only the original design of these stocks (repro or original) are allowed on these pistols, or are stocks allowed period? I guess that a 16" barrel could make it a rifle, but doesn't it have to be registered as a rifle as well?

To best recollection, arties can be used with artie stocks, navies with navy; original or honest reproductions are OK. 16" might make it a rifle (I had thought it was 18"? A letter discussing the guidelines for this are in the technical info link here on site.

I'm in NY State and no "registration" of rifles is needed. If you're buying one new here, your dealer will do the background check and collect his transfer fee; same if buying here from out of state. A C&R license here is useless except for its power to achieve dealer discounts from suppliers--prob. still worth the $30 if you buy much at all.

Strictly speaking, a short-barreled rifle is own-able. Your state laws must not restrict it. It must have been transferred to you by a holder of the separate federal license that allows these special transfers. And you must pay a $200 one time tax per weapon.

As far as I know, homemade retrofit stocks would not be legal on a regular P.08 with standard military or commercial length barrel. I think the Luger Carbines are also grandfathered in on the ATF list, and maybe the early "Ideal Stock" originals.

This bogey keeps popping up, every once in a while.

[Olle]

Sooo.... Seems like ATF has set themselves up for some serious confusion here. Just imagine if an eagle eyed ATF agent, expert in Artillery and Navy Lugers, says that your repro stock is so poorly made that it doesn't count as a repro.

The pistol/rifle dilemma seems to be a non-issue with the Lugers, but the AR-15s are just another example of ATF's confusing rules. The registration I'm talking about is not tied to the owner and I'm not sure how it really works, but I believe it's the manufacturer who designates lowers as pistols or rifles and then reports production numbers and serial numbers to ATF.

Now how in the world would you know if it's a pistol or a rifle when you pick up a stripped used lower at the gun show? And how would the cops know if they check out your AR-15? And most importantly: Why in the world would anybody ever need to know? Seems like the only thing ATF accomplished was to build a trap into the serial numbers: You buy a lower that happens to be a pistol and build a carbine on it, and you're breaking the law.