Police Luger Unit Mark

[Don M]

The key hangup to concluding that all of the blank toggle 29 DWMs were originally manufactured for export to the Riff Tribe is the apparent inconsistency between August Weiss' reference to a "paar Tausend" which can be understood as either a "few thousand" or a "couple of thousand" and the evidence that approximately 15,000 blank toggle Lugers were produced by DWM/BKIW in the late 1920s. Dwight, some years ago you felt the Riff contract was for 2,500 pistols which is consistent with Weiss' recollection (http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=4937). Have you found new information?

[Dwight Gruber]

Originally Posted by Don M

The key hangup to concluding that all of the blank toggle 29 DWMs were originally manufactured for export to the Riff Tribe is the apparent inconsistency between August Weiss' reference to a "paar Tausend" which can be understood as either a "few thousand" or a "couple of thousand" and the evidence that approximately 15,000 blank toggle Lugers were produced by DWM/BKIW in the late 1920s. Dwight, some years ago you felt the Riff contract was for 2,500 pistols which is consistent with Weiss' recollection (http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=4937). Have you found new information?

In 2004, with the publications at the time, that was the estimated production. A lot of information has come under the bridge since then, including August Weiss's comment.

I come down on the side of Herr Weiss's comment that he means "a few thousand." I can't help but think that if he meant 2,000 guns, he would have said "zwei Tausend," but that is my inductive reasoning.

Much of the information in Kenyon is obsolete. I tend toward scepticism of extrapolating production numbers based on reported samples. On the current topic, in the absence of documentation, I simply do not believe the 15,000 figure.


Joop,

In his diary, does Herr Weiss write "das Paar", or "ein paar"?

--Dwight

[Don M]

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

I tend toward scepticism of extrapolating production numbers based on reported samples. On the current topic, in the absence of documentation, I simply do not believe the 15,000 figure.

Dwight, your point is well taken. My earlier estimate of 15,000 was inherently based on the assumption that the reported examples of blank toggle pistols were from a random sample of the total production at that time. However, further reflection leads me to believe the reported examples are from a sample that is heavily biased toward attractiveness to GIs and collectors and therefore represts only a subset of the total production.

I have tried another method of data analysis. Using your Commercial list, I counted 169 reported blank toggles in the s, t, u and v series. If that number is a sample of an original number of 2500 such Lugers, it would represent a 7% "survival" rate. I have calculated survival rates for the Lugers of many police units and this number is reasonable, especially when compared with those of Landjägerei units. Consequently, I now agree with you that the blank toggle 29 DWMs are from the canceled Riff contract and that no other explanation is necessary. Thanks very much for challenging my earlier conclusion.