K date rig, all matching

[Balder]

Gentlemen,

I have no strong opinions about the authenticity of the guns in question. However, as a Norwegian collector of Lugers I am curious about the Norwegian tools which I never have heard about. Is the production of these a documented fact?

Some years ago we had a discussion on this forum about Norwegian-made Luger parts. I contacted the curator at the museum of Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk (state arsenal) who also worked at the factory for many years after the war. According to him, the only Luger parts made there were barrels. I have seen several other parts with the Kongsberg logo, but these were German-made spare parts.

Now, whether he would consider the tool as a "part" I do not know, but I am pretty sure he would have mentioned it anyway if in fact they did make them. Sadly, he is not around anymore.

Balder

[klaus 3338]

Originally Posted by Balder

Gentlemen,

I have no strong opinions about the authenticity of the guns in question. However, as a Norwegian collector of Lugers I am curious about the Norwegian tools which I never have heard about. Is the production of these a documented fact?

Some years ago we had a discussion on this forum about Norwegian-made Luger parts. I contacted the curator at the museum of Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk (state arsenal) who also worked at the factory for many years after the war. According to him, the only Luger parts made there were barrels. I have seen several other parts with the Kongsberg logo, but these were German-made spare parts.

Now, whether he would consider the tool as a "part" I do not know, but I am pretty sure he would have mentioned it anyway if in fact they did make them. Sadly, he is not around anymore.

Balder

Please ask Jan Erik Martinsen from the Military Museum in Oslo about the tools. I remember that I saw in Oslo hundreds of tools in the 1980 and 1990 years. Many were from the Third Reich times and other made by Kongsberg after the war for the Lugers which were used by the Norwegian Army after the war.

[Norme]

Originally Posted by CJS57

How does one fake an entire Luger? Do you start with an unmarked "sneak" and then make all the many stamps to remark it? Or do you hand cut the markings? What about the finishing? Can anyone refinish a Luger ( blue, halos, straw, tin plating, and aluminum) such that our experts here cannot tell? If it can fool the experts, how would anyone ever know? I am machine shop trained and have examined 500,000 and sold 10,000 collector guns over the last 50 years so I am not a beginner. Just curious how faking an entire gun is done?

Hi Chris, My primary area of interest is Imperial Navy Lugers and, trust me, anything from the humble loading tool to complete guns can be faked, as I know from bitter personal experience (see photos). A modern machine shop, as you must know, can reproduce anything made 70 to 100 years ago if there is sufficient financial incentive.
In the case of this K date, it was probably fabricated from a later Mauser, like a G date, in need of refinishing. After the old markings were removed and K date markings applied, it was refinished. We already know that the faker had access to period dies from the tool. A lot of work, I know, but the upside potential is enormous. All K dates, without exception, have sharp edged barrel bands. It's a shame that, when asked to post clearer photos, Myky had a hissy fit and left.
Regards, Norm

[Jan C Still]

Norme
Well stated:
"Hi Chris, My primary area of interest is Imperial Navy Lugers and, trust me, anything from the humble loading tool to complete guns can be faked, as I know from bitter personal experience (see photos). A modern machine shop, as you must know, can reproduce anything made 70 to 100 years ago if there is sufficient financial incentive.
In the case of this K date, it was probably fabricated from a later Mauser, like a G date, in need of refinishing. After the old markings were removed and K date markings applied, it was refinished. We already know that the faker had access to period dies from the tool. A lot of work, I know, but the upside potential is enormous."
Jan

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Norme

In the case of this K date, it was probably fabricated from a later Mauser, like a G date, in need of refinishing. After the old markings were removed and K date markings applied, it was refinished. We already know that the faker had access to period dies from the tool.

So the 'mechanic' or a partner would go to a large gun show, stake out a table showing Lugers, wait for a 'mark' asking enough questions to show he is interested and has $$$, and then swoop down on him and offer him a deal he can't resist on the K Date/Totenkopf/Russian Contract Luger...Oh, and I forgot the 'story' (every Luger has a story)..."Brought back by my grandfather, taken from the battlefield, never registered, stored 60+ years unfired (that's why the barrel is so nice & shiny), and because I've lost my job and want to keep my house I'm selling it at a loss...today only..."

I'm sorry to admit that I fell for a similar scam over on ARFCOM back in '04...

[kpf]

Here is my Norwegian tool



Regards

Kai

Norway