Toggle crack

[geopop71]

Geopop here, I just got my hands on a 1937 S/42 Luger all matching including the grips and mag. A friend has had this gun for several years and I know every mark on it. The other day I noticed what I thought ws a scratch on the rear toggle, after closer examination, I found it to be a hair line crack. We seldom shoot this pistol for the very reason of a part breaking. How hard would it be to get a rear toggle with a 76 on it? Repair is out of the question as well as selling it.
thank's geopop

[DavidJayUden]

Well one out of every 100 for sale will have #76. Since you are in no hurry, start looking now and sooner or later you will find one. Not sure if Mauser and DWM parts are identical in those regards, and also you will have to determine if yours is an early or late 1937 to get the correct blue finish. Maybe even watch for an affordable shooter with the correct #.
Can you post a picture of the offending part?
And try our Luger Doc for the part, as well as post something in the "wanted" section. Also watch Gunbroker, etc.
Good luck.
dju

[sheepherder]

A crack in the rear toggle???

How does your breechblock look??? Any cracks there???

Pics...Definitely...

[Curly1]

Can you post pics?

[Thor]

I have seen this once before, a Swiss Luger, I think in 30 Luger, probably a weak main spring and a heavy load. I can post a picture of it if anyone would like to see it. Of course, it is not the Luger in the subject post.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Like Ted I have seen this before as well. I once bought a Mauser 1936. I didn't notice the cracks untill I got it home in good light but the toggle, breechblock and the cannon rails were fractured with very fine line cracks. I thought as I do now that it had something to do with improper metallurgy.

[geopop71]

Thanks for the input, I will try to get pics up tomorrow. Glad to hear there may be a 76 part out there. As far as early or late, There is no strawing, and it does have Weimar eagles and a "Hump"
geopop

[geopop71]

OK, I found out the procedure for pics, do so tomorrow!
geopop

[Lugerdoc]

geopop, Sorry no #76 Mauser rear link available. If your intention is to keep this luger matching, pay heed to David U's warnings re correct finish & die set. TH

[ithacaartist]

George,
Perhaps the pics will answer this, when posted, but why rule our repair and refinishing for the cracked link? in most cases, a properly welded repair would be seamless and undetectable, save your number and font, and still be original to the gun.

[geopop71]

Well here is the pic of the crack. Maybe you can give a better opiion after you see it. I didn't know a Luger could be repaired like you say. I asume shooting it would not be recomended for now.
geopop

[geopop71]

It goes three quarters of the way to the rear. and it is all the way through, I can see it underneath the toggle.
geopop

[geopop71]

As for the breachblock it is excellent!
geopop

[geopop71]

Uden: I will certainly heed your advice, I would really like to keep this Luger as is and not change part's if possible. If the advice is getting it fixed, then that is what I will do, If not it will have to stay as it is and just look at it! I am very happpy to have found this forum, great advice and opinions!!
geopop

[JohnMo]

Is the toogle tempered?

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by geopop71

Well here is the pic of the crack. Maybe you can give a better opiion after you see it. I didn't know a Luger could be repaired like you say. I asume shooting it would not be recomended for now.
geopop

The crack in the toggle link is most interesting in that there is no obvious force generated in the cycle that would move material in this direction. The vector of the recoil's force, which becomes two mirror images after being divided at the area of the center toggle pin, is definitely comprised mostly of the front-to-back and comparatively very little side-to-side forces; so why is it splitting apart? Have you noticed any irregularity with the toggle pins (bending or undue wear), or excessive/asymmetric play in their joints? Any sign of significantly asymmetric wear inside the back end of the top of the frame--e.g. those projections between the ramps/rails?

No, I'd lay off using it until this issue is resolved.

Anyway, Tig welding can fix it all the way through. I think it would be good to obtain an unserviceable part from a parts/donor Luger of the same period so that the filler metal for the work would be the same as your toggle link.
I am ignorant about specific hardness the link should be, but since it is the same material, it can be annealed and heat treated again after the surface/shape/contour has been restored, but obviously before it is re-blued.

Yes, Ted, let's see a pic of yours, for comparison.

[cdmech]

I do alot of TIG welding. I would never fire that gun if I knew someone had repaired that toggle by welding. Just my two cents worth, but even if you found a #76 link the gun won't truely be "matching". Save that part as it is and just buy another link to use when you shoot it.
Marc

[lfid]

geopop,

any evidence that anything was captured between the under toggle and top of slide "slap" areas ?

I once owned a 06 commercial that had a chip out of the inside part of slap area where the center link to toggle pin had slipped out a bit to left side - seems like that could create the needed fulcrum effect for the type of crack your S/42 has

good luck with resolution
Bill

[geopop71]

In answer to both there is no play whatsoever any where around the toggle, either side to side or other wise. It is a very tight gun, we fired it about three weeks ago, I cleaned it the very next day, and play with it every chance I get, examining it very closely, I would have noticed that crack right away, But in just a day or so I picked it up and saw that crack immediatly, so it must have happened long after we fired it, and not just after! There are no pieces of steel or material inside the toggle at all, Mystery!
Thank's again George

As a side note my friend has had this gun for five years, we shot it right after he aquired it. It jambed every single time, ejecting the empty case and stove piping a live round! The usual inquiries got the same answer, "Luger's are fussy eater's, try diffferant ammo" That didn't work. One day I loaded the clip up and pushed up on the button, all 8 round's flew out of the mag. Bingo! Aint supposed to do that. Bent the lips on the mag, problem solved, bought an after mkt clip to shoot with. I have heard similar stories since.

[geopop71]

By the way, is removing that part a problem? How is it done? if as you say, the pin may have slid out, maybe that could have caused the crack!
George