Vihtavuori powder & 30 Luger

GIFFROY · 12-16-2011, 04:21 AM

Hello Rhuff,

Thank you for your informations. It is allways interesting to exchange data when the available is few. The Haendler & Natermann (H&N) company makes lead and cupperised handgun and rifle bullets; their website is interesting. The 86 gr Round Nose High Speed .311 is especially made for .30 Luger in cupperised lead. They say that the lead is soft enough to adapt to all diameters and also soft enough to become "cannelured" when a taper crimp is made. With Starline or Winchester brass, I think it is not necessary to crimp; I left 2 dummy cartridges (1 SL and 1 Win) in the magazine and shot 30 rounds without any change in the cartridge overall length.

rhuff · 12-16-2011, 04:47 PM

Giffroy,

Good to hear from you again. I believe that a large majority of the folks on this forum are collectors/buyers/sellers, and not shooters. Of the shooters, not too many of them are reloaders, so they purchase 9mm Lugers, and not 30Luger caliber. The factory ammo(Winchester and Fiocchi) is expensive here in the USA.

The original 30Luger ammo, and the current day 30Luger ammo, have a roll crimp into a cannalure to stop set back when the round feed into the chamber. The neck on the brass is so short, that it is difficult to get enough neck tension on the bullet to prevent set back.

Loading the .309 lead RN is easier to prevent setback, than when I load the Hornady or Sierra 86gr JSP with a .308 diameter. I plan to add a cannalure to these bullets(I own a cannalure tool) the next time that I load them to see if it will help with set back of the bullet. I have never tried to load .311 diameter bullets.

coverk · 12-16-2011, 11:14 PM

The Lee Factory crimp die creates a canalure as it creates the crimp. It is very effective in preventing the set back problem.

GIFFROY · 12-19-2011, 05:50 AM

Hello covert and rhuff,

Maybe I have not explained clearly enough : I have no problem with the setback of the bullets left in the magazine. Without crimp (or with a very light crimp) the lenght of 2 dummy cartridges remained unchanged during more than 20 shots.
I have just the problem to find a powder load giving a reasonable pressure AND strong enough to make the pistol operate. I will try 4,1 or 4,2 grains of N-320 ith my 86 grains bullets.
Anyway thank you very much for the help.

giffroy

rhuff · 12-19-2011, 04:39 PM

Giffroy,

One would not expect to have set back in the magazine from firing the pistol. If anything, one would expect the bullet to be "pulled" (increase the OAL) from firing as is sometimes seen in high caliber centerfire revolvers, and the locking the cylinder. The main problem with set back in a semi-auto is when the bullet strikes the feed ramp. If it does set back the bullet, and you are near/at max powder charge, then the chamber pressures can go quite high, and cause a problem/kaboom!!

If you are near/at max powder load, and not getting reliable toggle function, perhaps you might consider installing a lighter weight recoil spring.....Just a thought.

P. Octo · 04-09-2015, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIFFROY

Hello covert and rhuff,

Maybe I have not explained clearly enough : I have no problem with the setback of the bullets left in the magazine. Without crimp (or with a very light crimp) the lenght of 2 dummy cartridges remained unchanged during more than 20 shots.
I have just the problem to find a powder load giving a reasonable pressure AND strong enough to make the pistol operate. I will try 4,1 or 4,2 grains of N-320 ith my 86 grains bullets.
Anyway thank you very much for the help.

giffroy

This is for a 1906 .30, Swiss, made by DWM in excellent condition:
Bullets: 93 gr Fiocchi
Cases: Fiocchi
Primers: CCI
Powder: V 340: started at 0.29g (4.47gr, call it 4.5gr) but that proved too low in my Luger and caused ejection problems, no locking upon an empty magazine. Went up to 0.31g (4.78gr, call it 4.8gr) and no more problems, good accuracy: most bullets stayed inside the 8 ring on a 25 m target. Very clean burning.
I am going to try lead bullets plated with 100 microns of copper, .309 that can be obtained in Italy at the very reasonable price of € 75 per 1000 ($80.80 at today's rate). I am going there for a competion next week and hopefully will pick them up and report after testing.
Around my club, Luger afficionados favour the V 340 over the 320 for the .30; these old ladies need to be treated gently and with respect if we want to hand them over to the next generation... V 320 would be good for a 9 mm, though.
Please, add the usual disclaimer: proceed with caution, works in my gun etc.

sheepherder · 04-09-2015, 11:01 AM

I was poking around last week and found this listing for VV N340 at Handloads.com for the 30 Luger.

Haven't tried it; have never seen the powder in my area.

P. Octo · 04-09-2015, 01:26 PM

Yes, I also have the 5.4 gr listed, but as a maximum load. I have just started playing with the Luger so I am loath to submiy it to such pressure. I will chronograph so as to stay around 1180 ft/s max, which should be enough to punch holes in paper at 25 m. Speaking of which, I must aim well under the black with the 4.8 gr load to keep them Inside. I guess that with a hotter load I'll need to aim slightly higher, probably just at the 6 o'clock of the black. I remember reading somewhere that they were tuned to be point of aim at 50 m.

12-16-2011, 11:14 PM	#3
coverk User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Central Wisconsin Posts: 34 Thanks: 4 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Reduce Set Back The Lee Factory crimp die creates a canalure as it creates the crimp. It is very effective in preventing the set back problem.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

12-16-2011, 04:21 AM	#1
GIFFROY User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 19 Thanks: 11 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Rhuff, Thank you for your informations. It is allways interesting to exchange data when the available is few. The Haendler & Natermann (H&N) company makes lead and cupperised handgun and rifle bullets; their website is interesting. The 86 gr Round Nose High Speed .311 is especially made for .30 Luger in cupperised lead. They say that the lead is soft enough to adapt to all diameters and also soft enough to become "cannelured" when a taper crimp is made. With Starline or Winchester brass, I think it is not necessary to crimp; I left 2 dummy cartridges (1 SL and 1 Win) in the magazine and shot 30 rounds without any change in the cartridge overall length.

12-16-2011, 04:47 PM	#2
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,315 Thanks: 2,750 Thanked 999 Times in 734 Posts	Giffroy, Good to hear from you again. I believe that a large majority of the folks on this forum are collectors/buyers/sellers, and not shooters. Of the shooters, not too many of them are reloaders, so they purchase 9mm Lugers, and not 30Luger caliber. The factory ammo(Winchester and Fiocchi) is expensive here in the USA. The original 30Luger ammo, and the current day 30Luger ammo, have a roll crimp into a cannalure to stop set back when the round feed into the chamber. The neck on the brass is so short, that it is difficult to get enough neck tension on the bullet to prevent set back. Loading the .309 lead RN is easier to prevent setback, than when I load the Hornady or Sierra 86gr JSP with a .308 diameter. I plan to add a cannalure to these bullets(I own a cannalure tool) the next time that I load them to see if it will help with set back of the bullet. I have never tried to load .311 diameter bullets.

12-19-2011, 05:50 AM	#4
GIFFROY User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 19 Thanks: 11 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Hello covert and rhuff, Maybe I have not explained clearly enough : I have no problem with the setback of the bullets left in the magazine. Without crimp (or with a very light crimp) the lenght of 2 dummy cartridges remained unchanged during more than 20 shots. I have just the problem to find a powder load giving a reasonable pressure AND strong enough to make the pistol operate. I will try 4,1 or 4,2 grains of N-320 ith my 86 grains bullets. Anyway thank you very much for the help. giffroy

12-19-2011, 04:39 PM	#5
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,315 Thanks: 2,750 Thanked 999 Times in 734 Posts	Giffroy, One would not expect to have set back in the magazine from firing the pistol. If anything, one would expect the bullet to be "pulled" (increase the OAL) from firing as is sometimes seen in high caliber centerfire revolvers, and the locking the cylinder. The main problem with set back in a semi-auto is when the bullet strikes the feed ramp. If it does set back the bullet, and you are near/at max powder charge, then the chamber pressures can go quite high, and cause a problem/kaboom!! If you are near/at max powder load, and not getting reliable toggle function, perhaps you might consider installing a lighter weight recoil spring.....Just a thought.

04-09-2015, 01:26 PM	#8
P. Octo User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Cannes, France Posts: 32 Thanks: 20 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Yes, I also have the 5.4 gr listed, but as a maximum load. I have just started playing with the Luger so I am loath to submiy it to such pressure. I will chronograph so as to stay around 1180 ft/s max, which should be enough to punch holes in paper at 25 m. Speaking of which, I must aim well under the black with the 4.8 gr load to keep them Inside. I guess that with a hotter load I'll need to aim slightly higher, probably just at the 6 o'clock of the black. I remember reading somewhere that they were tuned to be point of aim at 50 m.