Erics'legal luger what if!!

[cirelaw]

Are stocks legally interchangeable? Can I legally put a navy stock on a artilllery?

[alanint]

The answer, in short, is NO. You could do it 1000 times, even at a public range, but by the letter of the law you are in violation.
Look, this gets talked about all the time. There are thousands of yahoos up in the hills with converted M16s, SBRs and SBSs or all kinds of war souvenirs Grampa brought back that are not registered. Should they be allowed to keep them? In my opinion, YES!! But that's not what the Federal Gov. says. Mess around all you want but at the end of the day if a local LEO or ATF guy decides you are his pigeon, is it really worth 10 Big Ones in the slammer?

[mrerick]

No.

Artillery Luger + Artillery Stock = Specifically exempted Firearm NOT subject to the NFA (Not Class III).

Artillery Luger + Navy Stock = Short Barreled Rifle subject to the NFA (Class III).

Navy Luger + Navy Stock = Specifically exempted Firearm NOT subject to the NFA (Not Class III).

Navy Luger + Artillery Stock = Short Barreled Rifle subject to the NFA (Class III).

The specific exemptions are:

Luger, Artillery model, pistols having chamber dates of 1914 through 1918 or 1920, having German Weimar Navy markings consisting of the letter M over an anchor and a German Navy property number accompanied by original Artillery Luger flat board stocks, bearing German Weimar Navy markings of the letter M over an anchor with or without Navy property numbers.

Luger, the 1920 Commercial Artillery model, pistols as mfd. by DWM or Erfurt, having undated chambers, commercial proofmarks, and bearing the inscription Germany or Made in Germany on the receiver and accompanied by original, German mfd., artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stocks.

Luger, DWM Pistol, model 1900, 1902, or 1906, in 7.65 Luger or 9mm parabellum cal., having the American Eagle chamber crest, and barrel lengths of either 4" or 4-3/4", with original detachable Ideal shoulder stocks and Ideal frame grips.

DWM Luger, Original models 1904, 1906, 1908, 1914, and 1920. Naval pistols in 9mm
parabellum or 7.65mm cal., in both the Commercial and Naval military varieties; in both
altered and unaltered barrel lengths in the model 1904 and in both altered and unaltered safety markings in the model 1906; with original board-type detachable shoulder stocks bearing brass or iron discs, with or without markings, or, if without brass or iron discs, being of the Navy flat board-type. This exemption applies only to the listed Naval Luger pistols if mated to the Naval Luger stock and will not apply if the Naval Luger pistol is mated to the Artillery stock. The Naval stock has an overall dimension of 12-3/4", a rear width of 4-5/8", a front width of 1-1/2", a rear thickness of 9/16", and a front thickness of l-3/16".

Luger, DWM Stoeger model 1920 and 1923, semiautomatic pistols in 7.65mm or 9mm parabellum cal., in barrel lengths of 8, 10, 12, and 12-1/2", having either American Eagle chamber crests and/or Stoeger frame and/or upper receiver marks, having either standard, Navy or artillery rear sights, having extractors marked either "Loaded" or "Geladen" and having frame safety markings of either "Gesichert" or "Safe," together w/original commercial flat board stocks of the artillery type, which bear no S/Ns or military proof marks; may include a "Germany" marking.

Luger, DWM Pistol-Carbine, model 1920, 7.65mm or 9mm parabellum cal., with accompanying original commercial type shoulder stock, with or without forearm piece, having barrel lengths of 11-3/4" to less than 16".

Luger, German model 1914, Artillery model pistol, mfd. by DWM or Erfurt, having chambers dated 1914 –1918, bearing Imperial German military proofmarks & accompanied by original, German mfd., artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stocks.

Luger, model 1902, Pistol-Carbine, 7.65mm Luger with original commercial type shoulder stock and forearm and 11-3/4" barrel.

Luger, Persian (Iranian) Artillery model, pistols, as mfd. by Mauser prior to 1945, accompanied by the original artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stock, bearing a S/N in Farsi characters stamped into the wood on the left side.

Luger, semiautomatic pistol, certain variations with Benke-Thiemann folding shoulder stock.

- - - -

Exact reproduction stocks are treated as originals per a subsequent finding letter from the ATF.

[cirelaw]

You should be the Luger Lawyer! Simular to the Marijuana Tax act!

[mrerick]

I just copied the exemption text out of the ATF document I referenced...

It's interesting. There really doesn't seem to be much rational thought behind some of the regulations.

I'm just thankful that there have been exemptions for the firearms we collect in respect of the history they embody.

It's painful to me to encounter Lugers that have had their stock lugs ground off in an effort (in the time before these exemptions) to make them "legal".

The situations that bother me are ones where there is a wide possible interpretation left by things that are not clearly defined in the rules.


Marc

[alanint]

You will never find a cogent, logic based ruling by ATF on most things. ATF made these regulatins up a they went along to rule on specific instances and to conrol certan behavior. There are bizarre instances like the MP5, where a bent piece of steel with a number on it is the legal "Machinegun". In others, such as the AR15s and AKs, a hole in the side or through the receiver determines if they have been "converted" to a machiegun.

[CavScoutEurope]

Yeah, the ATF can be a real pain sometimes. I still miss my CZ-24 pistol that they made me leave behind in Germany!

[cirelaw]

Whats worse are individual state laws and restrictions! Are air guns illegal in California?

[hardinge]

Airguns are OK in California but mounting a stock to a luger would be considered a assault weapon as a shoulder stocked firearm with a pistol grip is considered evil. California is a lovely place with many nice people but our gun laws are an irrational undecipherable byzantine mess