metal Lathe work

[jamese]

I'm looking for a member who might be interested in doing a small amount of metal lathe work.

I have a M1914/34 barrel that has a bulge in it and would like to have it shaved down to the original size. I could then
re-blue it

I would be happy to compensate a person for their time at a reasonable rate.

jamesegg@bellsouth.net

Thank you,

Jim

[G.T.]

Hi Jim, send it to me and I'll get'er done for you! til...lat'r...GT

[tomaustin]

..

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by jamese

I have a M1914/34 barrel that has a bulge in it and would like to have it shaved down to the original size.

Why not 'roll' it??? You use a tool that looks like a 2" pipe cutter, but has 3 rollers (& no cutting wheel!). Put a squib rod in the barrel, run the rollers down, and twirl it until it's down to correct diameter. It does leave roll marks, but if you were planning on re-bluing anyway, it's not a concern...

[jamese]

Thank You GT!
I'll send it your way

I just recently acquired the gun so my guess is a squib round caused the bulge. I wasn't going to worry about re boring the barrel, because I don't think it will make that much difference in how the gun shoots. Unless someone can tell me there is a safety issue.

Rich,
I have never heard to the tool you speak of, but if I used this tool would it not change the dimensions lengthwise also ?

Thank you everyone for your in-put and help

Jim

[John Sabato]

The could be a safety issue depending on the size of the bulge Jim. How noticeable is the bulge can you see it with your eyes, or just feel it with your fingers? People can actually feel differences of as little as .001 inch with their fingers. Even better, get a good caliper, or ask a local machinist if they will measure the bulge for you.

IMHO, if the bulge is several thousandths of an inch I would not consider the gun safe to shoot. Postino's suggestion to roll the barrel back down to its original diameter would have a lot of merit in that situation... and the barrel should not get longer to the point where it would be "too" long. If you can buy/borrow the tool, you would be basically returning the barrel back to the dimensions it had before it was stretched by the bulge. This would make the gun much safer to shoot. Perhaps GT could do that for you instead of shaving the barrel down?

Can you post a photo?

[alanint]

A non-machinist's question...
Won't these rollers have difficulty evening out what is essentially a tapered surface? I can undertand a bulge in a even diametered tube being fixed but how would the rollers perform on a taper??

[John Sabato]

Alanint is correct that this roller solution will only work for a barrel with a straight (no taper dimension)... While I am sure a tool could be designed that would work on a taper, it would not be a hand held device.

The rollers on such a tool would have to float longitudinally (adjust themselves) to the taper of the barrel to prevent galling the exterior dimensions and at the same time be able to be held stationary while they accomplished their task. The natural tendency of the tool would be to walk with the taper as the tool was tightened. This movement would have to be prevented, and the rollers would have to be longer in length than overall length of the bulged section of the barrel in order to do a reasonably good job. In this particular case, a tool such as that which was described by Postino just might work, because if memory serves me correctly, this is not a tapered barrel? Can anyone confirm this, because I don't own one of these pistols. I personally have always thought that they were pretty ugly, but then I am a Luger enthusiast, and pretty much all other pistols are ugly!

This process has been successfully used to reshape bulged shotgun barrels using a mandrel inside the barrel to prevent collapse during the rolling... In this case a mandrel or rod that was exactly the land diameter would be used to prevent the reshaping of the barrel from going too far. This would be very similar to how hammer forged barrels are made in the first place. We aren;t talking about a great deal of displacement of metal here, cause if we were, the repair would not even be feasible.

The key to being able to effect this repair is whether or not the barrel is too bulged to be repaired in the first place.

FNorm, the pistol is described as a 1914/34 (Mauser?) which would be .32 ACP, and not 9mm.

Since Jim is already talking about rebluing the gun, It is likely not a collectible, and I believe that he just wants it to be safely functional.

I think the easiest and probably the most inexpensive course of action would be to obtain a used replacement barrel and be done with it.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by FNorm

I'm not a machinist nor an engineer. The 9mm is a high pressure cartridge. I would not want to shoot this pistol. You may be able to 'fix' the outer dimensions, but what's happening inside?

FN

I've wondered about that...Someone here once said they had an artillery Luger with a bulged barrel that shot just fine...I have to wonder if pressure/sealing is lost as the bullet passes through the bulge...

Loss of velocity??? Loss of pressure??? Does it make a noise like a loud 'phut!'???

[jamese]

John,
you are correct the barrel is not tapered, I can't post a photo right now because the barrel is headed to AZ. I agree getting a new barrel is the best option, but right now they seem to be hard to find.

We talking .32 cal. I'm sure its on the lower end of the pressure scale, so shaving a few .001's off the barrel I don't think will cause a problem as far as safety goes.

I have a .32 cal that my father in-law gave me, that was given to him by is grandfather and the barrel walls of that gun are half the thickness of this Mauser barrel.

Thank you everyone for your help

Jim

[John Sabato]

Jim, I was not concerned about the shaving off of a few thousandths from the outside being a safety issue and apologize if I gave that impression. My concern is the shape of the bulge on the INSIDE of the barrel and the actions of the bullet as it passes the bulged spot at full velocity. I am sure that velocity will be hardly affected, but that accuracy will likely be very affected. The safety issue in my mind is whether or not continued use of the gun will result in additional bulging and subsequent damage to the user and the gun... You my friend...

Should the original barrel be "rolled" back into a close proximity of its original shape, IMHO, I would have no such worries about a failure.

I will be interested to hear about GT's evaluation of the barrel once he gets it.

[jamese]

John,
thank you for your clarification, I'm not to concern about accuracy if I have to use this gun for protection it would be a last ditch option and I would be so close to the bad guy that accuracy would not be a factor.

I was hoping GT would take a before photo, I have been informed that the barrel is on its way back to Florida as we speak..... I'll post some photos when it get back here.

Jim

[jamese]

I got the barrel from GT. All I can say is what a great job he did getting the barrel back into shape with a jig he made and a steel rod which was inserted into the barrel. His work is outstanding and I want to publicly thank him for his efforts.

Here are some photos of his work, after I re-blue the barrel, someone would be hard pressed to tell its been re-worked.

Thank You again GT !

Jim

[Edward Tinker]

wow, now that was ingenious, so he solved the issue of the bulge, while protecting the inside diameter...


Ed

[G.T.]

Hello to all & Thank you Jim & Ed for the kind words! Well, we won this one, and that doesn't alway happen, so I thought I'd explain the process used so that others may have some further insight on how to do something similar in the future.. Keep in mind that the process that works is usually discovered very shortly after the process you thought would work has been tried!.... Also, a unique feature of this forum is that there are some few members such as John, Rich & Rick who can't wait for the next challenge and are quite talented in their own right, I sometimes arrive at my final idea based on material I have either seen or read from their previous posts, efforts, ideas and suggestions... Such is the case with this project...
First off, my willingness to try to solve this dilemmia started when my brain failed to over-ride my mouth, and the words, "I'll do it!" ..came out... Really only being aware that, number one, it's hard to ruin any worse, something that's pretty much already ruined.... and number two, I've always liked Jims contributions to the forum and was happy to at least make an effort in his behalf...
So, when I received the barrel, I was a bit shocked to see not one bulge, but two! And, the thing looked like a small short anaconda that just swallowed two small pigs... It was immeadiatly appearant that lathe work was probably not going to be the best solution, but perhaps a little squeeze here and there might bring some improvement. I have a pretty good selection of reamers so the thought was to ream a hole in the split fixture exactly the diameter of the largest bulge and by grinding the fixture blocks at the seam, would allow the barrel bulge to compress back down to a smaller dimension. Example: hole A .5065" across horizontally, .5010" vertically.. hole B .5010" across horizontally, .4935" vertically.. these two sizes were adaquate to arrive at the final dia. of the barrel outside dia... The rod is about .003" under to allow the steel to flex then spring back some after force is applied..... Aaaahhh yes force... ... I have an arbor press, piece of cake right? I pushed on that thing till my caboose derailed...., I would guess 2 to 3 tons of force aaannnddd, nothing.. not even a thousandth... So, here's where plan B springs into action.. several hours later, I cut a slot in the bottom of my arbor press ram to accept the upper fixture half, and then, with the barrel properly set in the fixture assembly and while exerting as much pressure as I could on the barrel in the fixture... I nailed it, the arbor press ram top end, with a big brass hammer... it moved a few thousands!!! Rotate and wham, rotate and wham, r & w, r & w, etc... Smaller hole in the fixture, r & w, r & w.... anyway, you get the picture... It came back very, very slowly, and almost perfectly round.. (who'd a thunk it! ) I was pretty amazed myself when done... It has a deviation of only .0015" at any point, so, "stop while you're ahead" came screaming into my brain... and so now, all you guys know what I know, and it was all in good fun! Best to all, til...lat'r....GT

[sheepherder]

...Right-Click & Save!...

That should work with a tapered barrel as well!

BTW: You can buy ground rod of almost any diameter at Travers.com...

[lugerholsterrepair]

GT. I am always amazed by your skills!

I had a Colt .45 aquire a bulge in the barrel with complete failure of of the weapon with a massive jam. The recoil spring was hung up on the bulge! I managed to get it all apart after some struggle..I have a home machine shop that would make BUBBA proud so I chucked the barrel in my drill press and filed down the bulge untill the spring would pass. The pistol would shoot normally..you wouldn't know it was ever bulged but I was uncomfortable with it as I put thousands of rounds thru my .45 shooter so I eventually found and bought a new barrel. Looking down the barrel you could see the stress marks on the inside.

Gt..Your fix makes a lot more sense! Congratulations on a job well done!

[Neil Young]

G.T.:
That was a fantastic fix--I like how your brain works. People who tackle those difficult tasks impress me. You impress me!

Neil

[G.T.]

Thanks for the kind word Rich, Jerry & Neil.. My reach has always seemed to exceed my grasp, but even in knowing that, I've come to realize you really learn by doing.... And, it's sometime fun to revel in the few success's you do have, cuz, I'm also aware that there's a lot of time inbetween victories! ..... But, the final proof will be if the barrel stands up to firing pressure... I will be interested in Jims final testing ... (First shot tied to a tire swing, using a string, I hope!...)... Best to all, til....lat'r....GT

[G.T.]

Hi Rick, where'd you go??.. I like your posts, and, your opinion is important to me... I hope all is ok?? Best to you, til...lat'r...GT...