NIl Lugers

[A.Mifsin]

John Walter, in The Luger Story Book, The standard History of the World’s Most famous Handgun, in page 167, Mentions the NIL Lugers.

I tried to trace back how these Lugers were classified as Nil lugers, but I am afraid, I can’t find why they are called so.
Any idea why these Lugers were designated so?

Thank You for any Info.

Alf.

[Edward Tinker]

So, John Walters mentions them but gives no information?

Can you copy that page (scan it in) and post it here so those of us without our books can guess


Ed

[A.Mifsin]

"So, John Walters mentions them but gives no information?"

Ed, if he gave the information, I can't find it........
These are the 2 pages from the start of the subject.
Alf.

[Edward Tinker]

He is most likely talking about Netherlands East Indies made barrels, should be marked GS if memory serves me correctly, with the date of the barrel / refurb date on it.

There is a listing of what the GS guys made in the Dutch Luger book, I do not have my book with me, to see if barrels were part of what they made.


Ed

[sheepherder]

I have the soft-cover Walter book, "The Luger Book", 1986, reprinted in 1988. The section on the Netherlands/M11/Vickers Contract Lugers is somewhat different than the section from "The Luger Story"...

I'm curious as to which is the later book (with what one would assume is more current material)???

[guns3545]

Originally Posted by A.Mifsin

John Walter, in The Luger Story Book, The standard History of the World’s Most famous Handgun, in page 167, Mentions the NIL Lugers.

I tried to trace back how these Lugers were classified as Nil lugers, but I am afraid, I can’t find why they are called so.
Any idea why these Lugers were designated so?

Thank You for any Info.

Alf.

On page 125 Walters describes the terms. NIL later changed to KNIL.

Landmacht is the word for Army. The K (Royal) was added later.

Thus the NIL Lugers were those delivered by DWM with certain changes as described by Walter. The procurement process dates back to the 1905 tests I believe. The process was very prolonged for a variety of reasons.

Hope this helps.

John

[Edward Tinker]

The Luger Book is more encyclopedic and the Luger Story is written in an interesting manner.

I like the Luger Story, should have brought a copy with me


Ed

[guns3545]

Originally Posted by postino

I have the soft-cover Walter book, "The Luger Book", 1986, reprinted in 1988. The section on the Netherlands/M11/Vickers Contract Lugers is somewhat different than the section from "The Luger Story"...

I'm curious as to which is the later book (with what one would assume is more current material)???

The Luger Story was published in 1995 and revised in 2001.

However, much has been written in the last 5 years or so which sheds new light on data that we took as Gospel 20 years ago. Walters is but an overview of a very complex history. Volumes have been written on what he covers in a few pages.

John

[Vlim]

John nailed it:

NIL = Nederlands Indisch Leger. (Dutch Indies Army).
KNIL = Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger. (Royal Dutch Indies Army).

[A.Mifsin]

Thank You All guys, You were most helpfull.
Alf.

[A.Mifsin]

Originally Posted by Vlim

John nailed it:

NIL = Nederlands Indisch Leger. (Dutch Indies Army).
KNIL = Koninklijk Nederlands Indisch Leger. (Royal Dutch Indies Army).

Vlim, What is the difference between these two, just the name ?
Alf.

[mecano44]

Found this information :
NIL Lugers seem to have been purchased by the East Indies Dutch Army Airforce ( Militaire Luchtvaar der Nederlansch Indisch Leger ) in the type Pistole 1906 , 9 mm , barrel 4’’, and by the Dutch royal navy ( Koninlijke Marine ) in the type Pistole 08 , 9 mm , 4’’ , at the DWM/ BKIW Factory .
Deliveries NIL were :
1928, 3820 pieces numbers 10182-14001 made by DWM/ BKIW, DWM marking on the lock
1933 to 1937 number 14002-14020 marking DWM on the lock but made by Mauser
Deliveries to the Dutch Navy were made by DWM/BKIW and Mauser with several numbers not following
Total amounts are
3839 pieces delivered to the Dutch Army and 3254 to the Navy
5304 were made by the DWM/BKIW and marked DWM
664 made by Mauser and marked DWM
1125 made by Mauser and marked Mauser ( = Mauser Banner )
1940 the last 600 pieces order ( 2655v-3254v) was made and marked by Mauser, but finally delivered to the Wehrmacht , just after invasion of Nederlands…

[Vlim]

The air force bit is incorrect. Someone mistook the 1928 KOL marking for an airforce marking, which it wasn't.

Most KNIL pistol orders went to KNIL ground forces and only a few ended up with KNIL airforce crews.

If you want to know more about the KNIL contract, get 'The Dutch Luger' by Martens & De Vries. Brilliant book, based on archive material.

[tomaustin]

the NIL.................

[Vlim]

The NIL became the KNIL in 1933 officially. But before the official addition of the 'K' (Royal), the term had already been present on KNIL banners from 1836 onwards, granted by king Willem I.

So both terms are correct.

[mecano44]

Originally Posted by Vlim

The air force bit is incorrect. Someone mistook the 1928 KOL marking for an airforce marking, which it wasn't.

Most KNIL pistol orders went to KNIL ground forces and only a few ended up with KNIL airforce ....

My information didnt mention were the guns were used ,but only that the purchaser by DWM/BKIW "seem to have been" the Airforce, according to the archives of manufacturer.

Could be that the Department which purchased "officially" was the Air Force ? Because it was in charge to care for transport to East Indies ? ( at least for the 1st delivery ? )

[Vlim]

No, not at all.

It is very well documented that the guns were purchased by the KNIL (NIL) for use with their own troops, including some airforce staff. There never was a separate Dutch airforce contract.