early german luger, looking for info - Page 2

alanint · 09-03-2010, 02:45 PM

If this is true, (and there does appear to be irregularity in the barrel surface), I would also say that the exact same dies were used to stamp the frame serial number.

A puzzle indeed......

DavidJayUden · 09-03-2010, 04:20 PM

Metal has been removed from the barrel serial number area, and a number restamped. The absence of any proof marks on the gun suggests that it was not created in Germany.

--Dwight

Dwight:
Good spot. I can see that now. I guess that's why we pay you the big money...
dju

mrerick · 09-03-2010, 05:49 PM

Isn't the theory of those stock lug dimples related to the process Mauser used to blue the guns? Weren't they thought to have something to do with the way the guns were supported while being run through cleaning and bluing solutions?

Some kind of factory rework could help account for the exact font on the barrel restamp... Were there rebuild programs at Mauser?

Marc

tau-delt · 09-03-2010, 06:12 PM

Dwight....... GOOD eyes...... I need to start drinking whatever you do...

speedydemon72 · 09-03-2010, 07:54 PM

Thanks everyone for all the info but I'm still lost. So should I assume a good insurance value would be around 800.00 or would it be more or less. Thanks again for all your time and interest. Please keep posting with your suggestions.

Ron Wood · 09-03-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedydemon72

Thanks everyone for all the info but I'm still lost. So should I assume a good insurance value would be around 800.00 or would it be more or less. Thanks again for all your time and interest. Please keep posting with your suggestions.

I think that it would be wrong to go to the extent of declaring such a low value on this gun based on the well meaning comments posted to date. To my knowledge, Mauser produced relatively few grip safety guns and none that I know of with GESICHERT in the lower position. This frame has the earmarks of a first issue unaltered navy production.

I would be more inclined to attribute the tell-tale stock lug “dimples” to an erroneous cutter runout rather than considering the frame as being of Mauser origin. Perhaps it was this and/or other errors that precluded this particular gun from military acceptance (and the corresponding “proof” marks), and placed it in the parts bin to be later resurrected during the 1920s for commercial sales. The absence of proof marks does suggest that it was created somewhere other than Germany, but that is a suggestion not concrete proof.

The most troublesome detail is what really appears to be a scrubbed and restamped barrel serial number. The front of the frame also looks like it may have been treated in a similar manner. Hard to say when it was done, 1920 or last year.

I can’t assign a value but it seems to me to be more than $800.

Norme · 09-03-2010, 11:31 PM

Hi Randy, I agree with Ron, I don't believe the frame was manufactured by Mauser. We may never determine the when, where or who of this pistol, it is likely to remain an enigma. As to insurance value, Navy "shooters" start at around $1,500.00, and I would figure your gun somewhat more, say $2,000.00 to $2,500.00. I hope this helps. Regards, Norm

DavidJayUden · 09-03-2010, 11:39 PM

Any roached out Navy shooter should bring twice that amount. It is an interesting gun that has the experts puzzled.
Insure it for whatever feels right.
dju

speedydemon72 · 09-04-2010, 02:40 AM

Thanks guys for all the info and I hope you guys can help me find out what I have it is definitely a interesting thing to try and research and to find out the pros are having as much fun as me. Their is so much info out there and to still be confused as to what this gun is unbelievable. I just thought that it might not be worth as much as I first thought. I just have not seen anything like it. Thanks Again for everything

JTD · 09-04-2010, 10:52 AM

Randy, what part of PA are you in? I am in the Wilkes Barre/ Scranton area. John

speedydemon72 · 09-04-2010, 12:38 PM

Im located around the Dubois area of PA.

JTD · 09-04-2010, 04:34 PM

Too bad you were not a little closer, I would like to look it over. If you are ever going to be eastward a bit, or decide to sell it. email me at bench1000@aol.com. My vote is 20 era commercial sales gun. Even if it were recently made, it is a really nice navy shooter. Nice pistol you have, John

Ron Wood · 09-04-2010, 06:36 PM

Duboise! That's where my brother lives! Small world.

speedydemon72 · 09-05-2010, 01:40 PM

Small world indeed I do know some wood's from Dubois that I went to school with.

speedydemon72 · 09-16-2010, 12:52 AM

Hello thanks for all the replies from everyone. I was researching for info on my gun and came across a luger with the serial #61 and from what I can see in the pics it dont have alot of the markings and looks very close to what my gun looks like. Please let me know what you think. Thanks

09-03-2010, 05:49 PM	#23
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Isn't the theory of those stock lug dimples related to the process Mauser used to blue the guns? Weren't they thought to have something to do with the way the guns were supported while being run through cleaning and bluing solutions? Some kind of factory rework could help account for the exact font on the barrel restamp... Were there rebuild programs at Mauser? Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-03-2010, 06:12 PM	#24
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	Dwight....... GOOD eyes...... I need to start drinking whatever you do... __________________ dave

09-04-2010, 06:36 PM	#33
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Duboise! That's where my brother lives! Small world. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-16-2010, 12:52 AM	#35
speedydemon72 User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: PA, USA Posts: 9 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	serial # 61 luger Hello thanks for all the replies from everyone. I was researching for info on my gun and came across a luger with the serial #61 and from what I can see in the pics it dont have alot of the markings and looks very close to what my gun looks like. Please let me know what you think. Thanks

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09-03-2010, 02:45 PM	#21
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	If this is true, (and there does appear to be irregularity in the barrel surface), I would also say that the exact same dies were used to stamp the frame serial number. A puzzle indeed......

09-03-2010, 04:20 PM	#22
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Metal has been removed from the barrel serial number area, and a number restamped. The absence of any proof marks on the gun suggests that it was not created in Germany. --Dwight Dwight: Good spot. I can see that now. I guess that's why we pay you the big money... dju

09-03-2010, 07:54 PM	#25
speedydemon72 User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: PA, USA Posts: 9 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks everyone for all the info but I'm still lost. So should I assume a good insurance value would be around 800.00 or would it be more or less. Thanks again for all your time and interest. Please keep posting with your suggestions.

09-03-2010, 11:31 PM	#27
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Randy, I agree with Ron, I don't believe the frame was manufactured by Mauser. We may never determine the when, where or who of this pistol, it is likely to remain an enigma. As to insurance value, Navy "shooters" start at around $1,500.00, and I would figure your gun somewhat more, say $2,000.00 to $2,500.00. I hope this helps. Regards, Norm

09-03-2010, 11:39 PM	#28
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Any roached out Navy shooter should bring twice that amount. It is an interesting gun that has the experts puzzled. Insure it for whatever feels right. dju

09-04-2010, 02:40 AM	#29
speedydemon72 User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: PA, USA Posts: 9 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks guys for all the info and I hope you guys can help me find out what I have it is definitely a interesting thing to try and research and to find out the pros are having as much fun as me. Their is so much info out there and to still be confused as to what this gun is unbelievable. I just thought that it might not be worth as much as I first thought. I just have not seen anything like it. Thanks Again for everything

09-04-2010, 10:52 AM	#30
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 428 Thanks: 218 Thanked 410 Times in 151 Posts	Randy, what part of PA are you in? I am in the Wilkes Barre/ Scranton area. John

09-04-2010, 12:38 PM	#31
speedydemon72 User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: PA, USA Posts: 9 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Im located around the Dubois area of PA.

09-04-2010, 04:34 PM	#32
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 428 Thanks: 218 Thanked 410 Times in 151 Posts	Too bad you were not a little closer, I would like to look it over. If you are ever going to be eastward a bit, or decide to sell it. email me at bench1000@aol.com. My vote is 20 era commercial sales gun. Even if it were recently made, it is a really nice navy shooter. Nice pistol you have, John

09-05-2010, 01:40 PM	#34
speedydemon72 User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: PA, USA Posts: 9 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Small world indeed I do know some wood's from Dubois that I went to school with.