Luger Frame Tooling Marks Study

Vlim · 07-12-2010, 02:25 PM

Marc,

The Swiss 06/29 curves upwards. The center of the milled out portion is marked with the SIG logo (as SIG produced these frames).

CNC tooling was not used during the post war Mauser production. The cutouts were made by several horizontal and vertical milling/cutting machines. Although the drawings and jigs were based on the Swiss design, all tools, jigs and production steps had to be redone, because of differences in standards, calculations and production methods. Only a handfull of Swiss jigs and gauges found their way into the Mauser production process.

Mauser used relatively standard cutting, drilling and milling tools for the job.

The deletion of the two vertical 'inner ears' makes sense. They are completely pointless anyway

Dwight Gruber · 07-13-2010, 03:08 AM

"It's clear that the toolings built by DWM and by the Erfurt arsenal were different, utilizing different milling techniques."

"The Erfurt Equipment that went to Simson used the same milling technique. I expect that Krieghoff frames would show the same."

Actually it looks like the difference is not in the tooling, but in the order in which the final milling strokes were made. DWM practice appears to have been to finish the sides and back inside the frame first, then to make the final center routing stroke.

Erfurt practice seems to have been to make the center routing first, then finish the sides and back, intersecting the upper arc of the center stroke. Considering the origin of the Simson tooling, the similarity of machining makes sense--one can imagine the instructions for use coming along with the tools.

Actually, the rear frame Krieghoff finishing follows the pattern of DWM.

Here is a picture of my Dutch Vickers frame for your study.

As was mentioned, Vickers was supplied with sufficient tooling to finish work the parts. The most logical conclusion is that the inner frame machining characteristics represent Vickers finish craftsmanship.

The deletion of the two vertical 'inner ears' makes sense. They are completely pointless anyway

I'm not so sure they are pointless. They provide the only critical lateral positioning guides for the rear toggle piece--rather than depending on the manufacturing tolerances of the inside of the frame ears plus the manufacturing tolerances of the receiver extension widths.

--Dwight

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07-12-2010, 02:25 PM	#1
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Marc, The Swiss 06/29 curves upwards. The center of the milled out portion is marked with the SIG logo (as SIG produced these frames). CNC tooling was not used during the post war Mauser production. The cutouts were made by several horizontal and vertical milling/cutting machines. Although the drawings and jigs were based on the Swiss design, all tools, jigs and production steps had to be redone, because of differences in standards, calculations and production methods. Only a handfull of Swiss jigs and gauges found their way into the Mauser production process. Mauser used relatively standard cutting, drilling and milling tools for the job. The deletion of the two vertical 'inner ears' makes sense. They are completely pointless anyway

07-13-2010, 03:08 AM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	"It's clear that the toolings built by DWM and by the Erfurt arsenal were different, utilizing different milling techniques." "The Erfurt Equipment that went to Simson used the same milling technique. I expect that Krieghoff frames would show the same." Actually it looks like the difference is not in the tooling, but in the order in which the final milling strokes were made. DWM practice appears to have been to finish the sides and back inside the frame first, then to make the final center routing stroke. Erfurt practice seems to have been to make the center routing first, then finish the sides and back, intersecting the upper arc of the center stroke. Considering the origin of the Simson tooling, the similarity of machining makes sense--one can imagine the instructions for use coming along with the tools. Actually, the rear frame Krieghoff finishing follows the pattern of DWM. Here is a picture of my Dutch Vickers frame for your study. As was mentioned, Vickers was supplied with sufficient tooling to finish work the parts. The most logical conclusion is that the inner frame machining characteristics represent Vickers finish craftsmanship. The deletion of the two vertical 'inner ears' makes sense. They are completely pointless anyway I'm not so sure they are pointless. They provide the only critical lateral positioning guides for the rear toggle piece--rather than depending on the manufacturing tolerances of the inside of the frame ears plus the manufacturing tolerances of the receiver extension widths. --Dwight