Whats it worth? My 1st Luger (rig) purchase - Page 3

Sieger · 07-06-2010, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bijj62

Mauser George: You seem to be a level headed/reasonable member...In your opinion what would be the value of my rig? I'd like to know if I got a "good" deal or not. Thanks for your input!

Hi:

Simply stated, something is worth what someone else will pay you for it. Just who that someone is will often determine what he or she is willing to pay for just about anything.

Sieger

DavidJayUden · 07-06-2010, 08:55 AM

I have always assumed that the million dollar chip comes from hasty/careless removal, not a natural drying process. Using the latter rationale, if it is due to drying then it will happen to all of them eventually and none of us should take a $ hit on a chipped grip Luger when it is going to happen to all at some point in time?
dju

Sieger · 07-06-2010, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

I have always assumed that the million dollar chip comes from hasty/careless removal, not a natural drying process. Using the latter rationale, if it is due to drying then it will happen to all of them eventually and none of us should take a $ hit on a chipped grip Luger when it is going to happen to all at some point in time?
dju

Dear David:

I really don't think that drying is the issue, as a dry grip would grow farther away from the frame, not closer to it.

One thing is for sure. You should be very careful when removing that grip!

Sieger

bijj62 · 07-06-2010, 01:23 PM

The number 75 is stamped on the inside of sideplate. I couldnt get a perfect pic but I think you'll be able to see it. Thanks for taking the time to look at my Luger!!!

tau-delt · 07-06-2010, 02:30 PM

Jason.... 75 is the number you would want to see inside. From roughly 1939 forward Mauser stamped a number one more than the first two digits of the full serial number on the inside of the side plate on most of their military production.

IMO that it the original side plate for the gun.

Thanks for posting. The goal here and on other forums is to learn as we go. Every new gun is part of the process.

I would be pleased to have yours in my collection.

deepdarkwoodsman · 07-06-2010, 05:25 PM

Hello guys.

I don't post often, but I follow the new postings on almost a daily basis. I would like to thank everyone for a most entertaining thread. It has been a while since I have been this eager to log on and check out the new postings.

Jason, it is difficult to say with absolute certainty from pictures, but I believe that your gun is correct and worth in the neighborhood of $3,500 to $4,000. With that being said, two-matched-magazine rigs always make me a little nervous, and it is impossible to tell from the pictures if the magazines are original to your gun. With all the scrutiny your gun has received, frankly I am surprised that no-one has attacked the magazines yet.

Magazines are the most tinkered-with part of these guns, and more people get burned (myself included) with matched magazines that with any other luger alteration or enhancement. I can assure you that there are many more lugers with matching magazines now than there were at the end of WWII. I have seen many, many lugers with magazines that have had their numbers ground or scrubbed and then re-numbered to match the gun they are currently paired with. Nothing adds value to a luger faster than adding a matched magazine to the deal. A very wise collector once told me to invest in a pair of digital calipers. When measuring the round knobs of the magazine bottoms, the measurements must be the same from top-to-bottom, and side-to-side. If the top to bottom reading is off by as little as 1/2 mm, be very careful.

Thanks for reading.

Doug

Mauser George · 07-06-2010, 06:40 PM

Sieger:

Say what you please, but the facts speak for themselves. I truly appreciate you being so civilized when dealing with me!

Why don’t we just stick with the topic at hand which is Jason 1941 Luger. It’s ok to disagree, however his Luger, including the grips in my option are right as rain!

George

wlyon · 07-06-2010, 07:42 PM

Jason
Nice looking luger. My estimate would be closer to 95%. As for value, if the mags are original around $3000 to $3500. The holster $250 to 300. Difficult to appraise from pictures. Bill

tharpo · 07-06-2010, 11:50 PM

In regards to the grips. I have a 1941 byf with a "p" suffix which puts its production just before Jason's luger with a "Q" suffix. My left grip is different in that it is numbered to the gun but both are marked with an E/655 and a "D" stamp(workers mark?). This leads me to believe that his grips are original to the period but I would have of way of knowing if his left the Mauser factory on his gun.

LugerVern · 07-07-2010, 12:16 AM

It's a good thing this is the "New Collector" section.

I am done with this post

Sieger · 07-07-2010, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LugerVern

It's a good thing this is the "New Collector" section.

I am done with this post

Dear LugerVern:

Amen brother, amen!!!

Sieger

Jason L · 07-07-2010, 01:12 AM

Hey Gents,
Honestly I go back and forth on this one. There are a few things that bother me.......
1. GESICHERT is too white, all my guns are yellowed
2. There appears to be no typical holster wear on the end of the barrel.
Overall I think it is Ok but the pictures are not good enough to determine the originality. A hands on inspection among other examples would be best IMHO. Here are a couple byf 41's from my collection for comparison.
Cheers,
A different Jason

DavidJayUden · 07-07-2010, 12:22 AM

LugerVern:
Why is that ?
dju

bijj62 · 07-08-2010, 08:04 PM

I just got back from a gun shop about 50 miles away from where I live, I had a gentleman look my Luger over real good. Why didn't anybody tell me this was considerd a "Black Widow"?? I guess maybe I shouldve known...He took a magnifying glass to it and it was his opinion that it had never been refinshed, it had correct grips, and that the holster was original in 85%+. He pulled both grips and opened the chamber took his glass looked it all over, looked up at me with a grin and said "I bet this thing hasn't had 50 rounds thru it".

bijj62 · 07-08-2010, 10:26 PM

Scratch that "black widow" remark. I spoke with him again and he says alot of people call the Lugers with the blued trigger etc "black widows" Ive seen that term quite a bit in my recent attempt on researching Lugers, does it just have to do with the plastic grips I'm assuming?

Norme · 07-08-2010, 10:39 PM

Hi Jason, "Black Widow" is a term that was coined a few years ago to describe the 20% or so, of the 1941 and 1942 byf Lugers that were issued with black bakelite grips. This label has caught the popular imagination and these guns are now worth a little more than those with wood grips. Regards, Norm

Ardennes · 07-08-2010, 11:56 PM

Photos have limitations as do the human eyes. That being said I think we are looking at what comes close to a mint byf 41 rig. They do exist. That does not scare me at all. The gentleman has the piece and it must be considered original. A rework? One must always consider the possibility, but an absolutely perfect fake (if such a thing exists) would have to considered original until shown to be otherwise. If excellent pieces are considered too good looking to be original ... where does that leave us?? From what I can see, $3000.00 easy for this rig up to perhaps $4500.00 tops. Just my opinion.

tau-delt · 07-09-2010, 10:42 AM

If you look at the post that Jason L made on 7/7 (post #67) above in this thread you will see a nice pair of so called Black Widows. Note the black grips and the black plastic mag bottoms.

FNorm · 07-09-2010, 11:33 AM

Jason,

Just for comparison take a look at my posting. Under military lugers, 'Pair of 41s'. About page 2-3. One black widow, one.... Brown Recluse? LOL

FN

Neil Young · 07-09-2010, 12:36 PM

"Brown Recluse"--I like that. I think you just coined another name for a specific type of Luger. My byf 42 is a Brown Recluse from this day forward.

Thanks.

Neil

07-06-2010, 02:30 PM	#5
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	Jason.... 75 is the number you would want to see inside. From roughly 1939 forward Mauser stamped a number one more than the first two digits of the full serial number on the inside of the side plate on most of their military production. IMO that it the original side plate for the gun. Thanks for posting. The goal here and on other forums is to learn as we go. Every new gun is part of the process. I would be pleased to have yours in my collection. __________________ dave

07-06-2010, 07:42 PM	#8
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,673 Thanks: 3,243 Thanked 2,658 Times in 988 Posts	Jason Nice looking luger. My estimate would be closer to 95%. As for value, if the mags are original around $3000 to $3500. The holster $250 to 300. Difficult to appraise from pictures. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

07-09-2010, 10:42 AM	#18
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	If you look at the post that Jason L made on 7/7 (post #67) above in this thread you will see a nice pair of so called Black Widows. Note the black grips and the black plastic mag bottoms. __________________ dave

07-09-2010, 12:36 PM	#20
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 552 Thanks: 567 Thanked 449 Times in 170 Posts	"Brown Recluse"--I like that. I think you just coined another name for a specific type of Luger. My byf 42 is a Brown Recluse from this day forward. Thanks. Neil __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

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07-06-2010, 08:55 AM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I have always assumed that the million dollar chip comes from hasty/careless removal, not a natural drying process. Using the latter rationale, if it is due to drying then it will happen to all of them eventually and none of us should take a $ hit on a chipped grip Luger when it is going to happen to all at some point in time? dju

07-06-2010, 05:25 PM	#6
deepdarkwoodsman User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 38 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 1 Post	Hello guys. I don't post often, but I follow the new postings on almost a daily basis. I would like to thank everyone for a most entertaining thread. It has been a while since I have been this eager to log on and check out the new postings. Jason, it is difficult to say with absolute certainty from pictures, but I believe that your gun is correct and worth in the neighborhood of $3,500 to $4,000. With that being said, two-matched-magazine rigs always make me a little nervous, and it is impossible to tell from the pictures if the magazines are original to your gun. With all the scrutiny your gun has received, frankly I am surprised that no-one has attacked the magazines yet. Magazines are the most tinkered-with part of these guns, and more people get burned (myself included) with matched magazines that with any other luger alteration or enhancement. I can assure you that there are many more lugers with matching magazines now than there were at the end of WWII. I have seen many, many lugers with magazines that have had their numbers ground or scrubbed and then re-numbered to match the gun they are currently paired with. Nothing adds value to a luger faster than adding a matched magazine to the deal. A very wise collector once told me to invest in a pair of digital calipers. When measuring the round knobs of the magazine bottoms, the measurements must be the same from top-to-bottom, and side-to-side. If the top to bottom reading is off by as little as 1/2 mm, be very careful. Thanks for reading. Doug

07-06-2010, 06:40 PM	#7
Mauser George User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New York Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Sieger: Say what you please, but the facts speak for themselves. I truly appreciate you being so civilized when dealing with me! Why don’t we just stick with the topic at hand which is Jason 1941 Luger. It’s ok to disagree, however his Luger, including the grips in my option are right as rain! George

07-07-2010, 12:22 AM	#13
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	LugerVern: Why is that ? dju

07-08-2010, 08:04 PM	#14
bijj62 User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I just got back from a gun shop about 50 miles away from where I live, I had a gentleman look my Luger over real good. Why didn't anybody tell me this was considerd a "Black Widow"?? I guess maybe I shouldve known...He took a magnifying glass to it and it was his opinion that it had never been refinshed, it had correct grips, and that the holster was original in 85%+. He pulled both grips and opened the chamber took his glass looked it all over, looked up at me with a grin and said "I bet this thing hasn't had 50 rounds thru it".

07-08-2010, 10:26 PM	#15
bijj62 User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Scratch that "black widow" remark. I spoke with him again and he says alot of people call the Lugers with the blued trigger etc "black widows" Ive seen that term quite a bit in my recent attempt on researching Lugers, does it just have to do with the plastic grips I'm assuming?

07-08-2010, 10:39 PM	#16
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Jason, "Black Widow" is a term that was coined a few years ago to describe the 20% or so, of the 1941 and 1942 byf Lugers that were issued with black bakelite grips. This label has caught the popular imagination and these guns are now worth a little more than those with wood grips. Regards, Norm

07-08-2010, 11:56 PM	#17
Ardennes User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Photos have limitations as do the human eyes. That being said I think we are looking at what comes close to a mint byf 41 rig. They do exist. That does not scare me at all. The gentleman has the piece and it must be considered original. A rework? One must always consider the possibility, but an absolutely perfect fake (if such a thing exists) would have to considered original until shown to be otherwise. If excellent pieces are considered too good looking to be original ... where does that leave us?? From what I can see, $3000.00 easy for this rig up to perhaps $4500.00 tops. Just my opinion.

07-09-2010, 11:33 AM	#19
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Jason, Just for comparison take a look at my posting. Under military lugers, 'Pair of 41s'. About page 2-3. One black widow, one.... Brown Recluse? LOL FN