Census vs. Rights

azlaw · 03-19-2010, 02:08 PM

Usually the squabbling over cesus information is related to the very critical issue of Federal districts for purposes of Congressional representation or jury pooling. Those matters frequently come before the SCOTUS (Supreme Court Of The United States). The Census Bureau has along history of asking questions outside of art 1, but the current "long form" census questionnaires really get some peoples' goat - health questions, do you ride a bicycle, race, etc.

The issue of whether or not a person can be compelled to answer the Census is well settled. See U.S. v. Sharrow, 309 F.2d 77 ( C.A.N.Y. 1962)(Cert. denied 372 U.S. 949). Not that they are looking to prosecute, but if you are a census protestor, and you mail an affidavit to the U.S. Attorney proclaiming that you refuse to answer, then they might bust you.

A recent overview of how to dismantle the Article I, 1st Amt, and 14th Amt arguments may be found at Morales v. Daley, 116 F.Supp.2d 801 (S.D.Tex. 2000). Notwithstanding the high-sounding words in the old railroad case cited, the controlling law on the 4th Amt issue is presently Wyoming v. Houghton, 526 U.S. 295, 299, 119 S.Ct. 1297(1999), which basically says "Hey, Congress can do that, suck it up." This doctrine derives from a landmark case that we may have all read about in High School called McColluch v. Maryland, 17 U.S. 316 (1819), which basically says that Congress can do what it thinks "necessary and proper" unless there is a clear violation of the terms of the Constitution and that the courts must not otherwise interfere with the governance of the country.

Bottom line is: Answer the Census, we're counting on you - or else! And if you don't like it, call your congressman.

H

Jack Lawman · 03-19-2010, 03:01 PM

US Code, Title 13, Chapter 7, Subchapter II, § 221 outlines the penalties:

(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or
willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any
other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce
or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the
Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his
knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in
connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I,
II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to
the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or
farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not
more than $100 (emphasis added).
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a)
of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances
described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is
false, shall be fined not more than $500 (emphasis added).
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person
shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his
religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.

So $100 for not giving your phone number, $500 for intentionally giving a wrong number. No mention of jail time.

I guess one must return the census stating only the number of persons in residence (nothing else) along with an affidavit that other information is intentionally omitted. Copy info to major media. Take your $100 hit, then sue the Census bureau and hope you get your $100 back by order of the Supreme Court (I'd frame that check!).

Otherwise, you're probably stuck doing what I'm going to do... fill it out completely and truthfully. At least my clan will get counted for congressional representation purposes. I certainly don't have the 'nads to slug it out with the man!

Jack

lew1 · 03-19-2010, 03:30 PM

Let's see. I can give them my home telephone number - to which I have a fax machine attached 100% of the time. I do everything by cell phone. The only reason I keep the line is for the faxes and the burglar alarm system.

As to race, it is well established that humannity started in Africa. So that makes us all Africian Americans.

Remember, on April 1, the day the count is taken, invite some friends over. Then visit their house.

Then note question 10 --- where is asks if the person sometimes live or stay somewhere else. For those married people, who consider marriage a burden, an answer could be 'In jail or prison'

and there is the catch all 'For another reason'

All truthful answers.

sheepherder · 03-19-2010, 05:36 PM

I'd like to know if everyone is getting the same form, or if there are variations...One of my co-workers says she had to put her SS number down...another said he had to sign his...

I didn't see any boxes for either of these...just page after page of empty spaces...(I'm single, live alone)...

name, age, DOB, phone #, race...pretty much all there was on mine...Took 30 seconds...

tomaustin · 03-19-2010, 08:20 PM

...

lew1 · 03-19-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

I'd like to know if everyone is getting the same form, or if there are variations...One of my co-workers says she had to put her SS number down...another said he had to sign his...

I didn't see any boxes for either of these...just page after page of empty spaces...(I'm single, live alone)...

name, age, DOB, phone #, race...pretty much all there was on mine...Took 30 seconds...

No boxes for SS# or for signature.

Just remember, the law requires the form to be completed on April 1 - not March 31 or April 2.

sheepherder · 03-21-2010, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lew1

Just remember, the law requires the form to be completed on April 1 - not March 31 or April 2.

Darn! looks like I screwed up again!

IIRC, in the 2000 Census, there was a long form that a certain "random" percentage got...1 in 10, or 1 in 1000, whatever...I got the short form then, too...

Not real certain about this...CRS and all that...

sheepherder · 04-01-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

IIRC, in the 2000 Census, there was a long form that a certain "random" percentage got...1 in 10, or 1 in 1000, whatever...I got the short form then, too...

Not real certain about this...CRS and all that...

My memory is still intact...there *was* a long form in 2000...and there is a long form this year, too...

First pic is the short form; 10 questions, IIRC...plus more pages for up to 9 extra members of your household...

Second pic is this years long form...I didn't get it, but it is about 3/16" thick, as compared to the short form...

Had to take pics with my phone, so they're pretty bad...but you can see there is a difference...

This is the *only* long form I've seen in 793 deliveries...so the percentage must be on the order of 1 in 1000...

03-19-2010, 03:01 PM	#2
Jack Lawman User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Near NYC Posts: 428 Thanks: 30 Thanked 64 Times in 37 Posts	US Code, Title 13, Chapter 7, Subchapter II, § 221 US Code, Title 13, Chapter 7, Subchapter II, § 221 outlines the penalties: (a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100 (emphasis added). (b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500 (emphasis added). (c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body. So $100 for not giving your phone number, $500 for intentionally giving a wrong number. No mention of jail time. I guess one must return the census stating only the number of persons in residence (nothing else) along with an affidavit that other information is intentionally omitted. Copy info to major media. Take your $100 hit, then sue the Census bureau and hope you get your $100 back by order of the Supreme Court (I'd frame that check!). Otherwise, you're probably stuck doing what I'm going to do... fill it out completely and truthfully. At least my clan will get counted for congressional representation purposes. I certainly don't have the 'nads to slug it out with the man! Jack __________________ Why do you guys hate black circles so much?

03-19-2010, 03:30 PM	#3
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	Let's see. I can give them my home telephone number - to which I have a fax machine attached 100% of the time. I do everything by cell phone. The only reason I keep the line is for the faxes and the burglar alarm system. As to race, it is well established that humannity started in Africa. So that makes us all Africian Americans. Remember, on April 1, the day the count is taken, invite some friends over. Then visit their house. Then note question 10 --- where is asks if the person sometimes live or stay somewhere else. For those married people, who consider marriage a burden, an answer could be 'In jail or prison' and there is the catch all 'For another reason' All truthful answers. __________________ charlie

03-19-2010, 08:20 PM	#5
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	i believe they are just trying to verify the info they already have..... ... Last edited by tomaustin; 03-19-2010 at 08:23 PM. Reason: spelling

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03-19-2010, 02:08 PM	#1
azlaw User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 207 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Usually the squabbling over cesus information is related to the very critical issue of Federal districts for purposes of Congressional representation or jury pooling. Those matters frequently come before the SCOTUS (Supreme Court Of The United States). The Census Bureau has along history of asking questions outside of art 1, but the current "long form" census questionnaires really get some peoples' goat - health questions, do you ride a bicycle, race, etc. The issue of whether or not a person can be compelled to answer the Census is well settled. See U.S. v. Sharrow, 309 F.2d 77 ( C.A.N.Y. 1962)(Cert. denied 372 U.S. 949). Not that they are looking to prosecute, but if you are a census protestor, and you mail an affidavit to the U.S. Attorney proclaiming that you refuse to answer, then they might bust you. A recent overview of how to dismantle the Article I, 1st Amt, and 14th Amt arguments may be found at Morales v. Daley, 116 F.Supp.2d 801 (S.D.Tex. 2000). Notwithstanding the high-sounding words in the old railroad case cited, the controlling law on the 4th Amt issue is presently Wyoming v. Houghton, 526 U.S. 295, 299, 119 S.Ct. 1297(1999), which basically says "Hey, Congress can do that, suck it up." This doctrine derives from a landmark case that we may have all read about in High School called McColluch v. Maryland, 17 U.S. 316 (1819), which basically says that Congress can do what it thinks "necessary and proper" unless there is a clear violation of the terms of the Constitution and that the courts must not otherwise interfere with the governance of the country. Bottom line is: Answer the Census, we're counting on you - or else! And if you don't like it, call your congressman. H

03-19-2010, 05:36 PM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	I'd like to know if everyone is getting the same form, or if there are variations...One of my co-workers says she had to put her SS number down...another said he had to sign his... I didn't see any boxes for either of these...just page after page of empty spaces...(I'm single, live alone)... name, age, DOB, phone #, race...pretty much all there was on mine...Took 30 seconds...