1939 Berlin "Odd" Holster?

[Nytebytes]

Recently, I discovered some of my father's WWII items in a lock box. He was in the Battle of the Bulge, Dec 1944, and while fighting in the village of St. Vith, Belgium, captured a 1918 Luger from a German soldier who sadly found himself in my father's sights.

Although this captured Lugar was a 1918 Imperial firearm, the holster was a A. Fischer Berliin C2 1939. I have researched these 3rd Reich holsters and haven't found any that looks like this one.

First, it appears that someone (not my father) had removed the clip pouch from the from face of the holster, then trimmed the flap to remove the portion that covered the top of the spare clip. That is not my mystery.

What is unusual is, all the Military 3rd Reich holsters I have ever seen have a small tool pouch sewn into the inner flap as well as a leather tab to help extract the gun from the holster.

This holster does not have that pouch and there are no tell-tale thread marks where one would have been. The holster also doesn't have a leather tab for gun extraction but does have a heavy leather strap sewn on the inside surface of the flap that extends into the holster, curves and is sewn onto the inside face of the holster front face.

Although this holster is 71 years old, it has been in my father's a lock box since he returned in 1945 and is remarkable condition considering it was a battlefield aquisition. The leather is supple, very slight surface cracking on the exterior of the flap and the rest of the holster is extremely smooth and has highly polished leather surfaces.

I would like to ask if anyone has ever seen a holster fitting this description. I have attached 5 digital pictures to assist in the identification. Please feel free to email for additional pictures as I hope someone can assist me in it's identification or history of origin.

Best Regards,
Ed Vedder
ejvedder@comcast.net

[suum cuique]

Who carved in the swastika?

[Nytebytes]

I have no idea who carved the swastika. I remember seeing the swastika on the holster when I was a small child. I can only assume it was the soldier that carried it, but have no way of verifying that.

Just as a side note, I do have the original photograph taken of the "previous" owner laying beside a tank in St. Vith. My father took the photo moments after he aquired the gun.

[Vlim]

It looks like this holster started out as a standard military P08 holster, but that it was modified by cutting away parts of it.

If the photo shows the first owner with holster in situ, it should be enough to prove that he modified it. Modification of P08 holsters for easier access was mostly a GI hobby. The German army did not really approve or advocate the personal change of field gear.

[Norme]

Hi, Welcome to the forum. Jerry Burney is our resident leather expert and I expect he will weigh in soon. It looks to me as if this holster has a replacement flap, which would explain the missing tool pouch. Also, the front of the holster has been cut down, eliminating the pull strap. Presumably this was done in the interest of a "fast draw". Evidently not fast enough for the original owner! Regards

[alanint]

If the front of the holster was cut down for quick access, it was very nicely done, with the edges buffed and rounded similar to a factory finish and a nice decorative line chasing the edge over its entire length!

[George Anderson]

Interesting holster with a P38 type lift strap. Nothing about it indicates to me that it was ever a P08 holster. The tooled edging on the front testifies to it not having been cut down. I would hope that Klaus Merzbach would offer an opinion.

[Don M]

The body of the holster looks very much like those manufactured for use with the 9-mm Dreyse by the Imperial Landgendarmerie. Examples of these are shown on p. 188 of HWIS and in the thread http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=21274. The flap is quite different and may have been a replacement as suggested by Norm. It apparently does not have the L.G. stamp found on the former Landgendarmerie holsters but I would not expect it on a holster manufactured in 1939.

[Edward Tinker]

I can not add much, except to say that although a luger might fit in it, it is most likely like the gentlemen said above.

I can say that I have been to St Vith on several occassions; as I toured the path the tanks rushed down to fight the germans during the begining of the buldge.

Drove my 1996 Jeep (new at the time) to try and get back in time for my son to go to one of his first dances. The speedometer was pegged down at the bottom of the gauge (I think it would offically go only around 110mph or so. And in Belgium it would have been a hefty fine, but hey


ed

[Don M]

Lugers fit in Dreyse holsters quite well as evidenced by the many examples of the use of these holsters with Lugers by the Weimar-era police. Also, the provenance of this holster confirms it contained a Luger. I am thinking that the pattern of the old Dreyse holsters may have been used in this case but am puzzled by the lack of a spare mag pouch. Might it have been left off for tank crews to prevent it hanging up in tight spaces?

[Norme]

Hi Don, In Ed's initial post he states that the spare mag pouch appears to have been removed. Regards

[lugerholsterrepair]

Looks like a P-38 holster to me with the auto lift strap and the leather block sewn inside the right side behind where the mag pouch used to be.This holster NEVER started out to be a P-08. It was made for a P-38. You can tell this by the shape of the body where the pistol handle is. Nothing like the P08 shape.

If you look inside you can see where the stitching is still there from the old mag pouch.

This holster/type would never have had a tool pouch in the top flap. Nor would it ever have a mag pouch sewn on the front.

The really unusual thing about it is the buckle assembly closure. Unlike it's P-38 brethren which have the metal bale closure.
I can't recall ever seeing one of these.

Jerry Burney

[Nytebytes]

Mr. Burney,

Thank you so much, I appreciate and value your comments. I'm now very intrigued by your comment ... "I can't recall ever seeing one of these."

I had researched the P-38 holsters as well and found their contour around the grip area not as pronounced as mine. Possibly different holster manufacturers were allowed some creative license when developing the shape of their holsters.

I will post some more pictures of both a 1939 P-38 holster and my 1939 A. Fischer holster and would be interested in your observations.

Sincerely,
Ed Vedder
ejvedder@comcast.net

[Nytebytes]

I apologize for the quality of these pictures but I think they will suffice to show the contour differences.

Ed Vedder

[klaus 3338]

For me it´s a typical early commercial P38 holster. The magazine pouch seems to be cut. There seems to be a small part of leather of the former magazine pouch and on the last photo we see some stitches of the mag pouch in the open holster. Because of the now missing mag pouch the flap of the holster was cut away “to make a correct picture” (sorry for the poor English in the last sentence- I do not know it better).

A witty fellow added the swastika to "raise the value" but I think it is a rare holster.

I wonder a bit that Fischer made a commercial holster. Commercial holsters were made in Germany mostly by AKaH (Albrecht Kind aus Hürth). Because I never have loved P38 I have no more info about this type of holster. But because I love Lugers I have a nice example of a commercial Luger holster of a resembling kind.

Best regards Klaus

[lugerholsterrepair]

Ed, I believe you have made an error. Where you show your holster & another supposedly P-38 for comparison, a 1939 Auwater & Bubeck..The holster shown is a P08.

I know this because on the bottom of the left belt loop there are 2 overstitched lines where the lifting strap is sewn in. This is ONLY found on P08 holsters.

Wherever you got this photo, it has been mislabled.
Jerry Burney

[Nytebytes]

Hi Jerry,

You are correct, I mis-typed the description. I have collected various photos and wasn't paying attention. Thanks for spotting my mistake.

BTW, Klaus did weigh in on my query and thinks it may be a rare holster. I'm delighted to hear that and will continue my quest to find more information or another like it.

Thanks again,
Ed

[klaus 3338]

A photo of it´s right side (where usualy is the magazine pouch) would help to see if there are old stiches.

[Nytebytes]

Klaus,

Here are two pictures of the right side. If you need different angles, just let me know.

[klaus 3338]

Ed, thanks for the photo. It seems to be what I thought- an early commercial P38 holster with a cut magazin pouch.
Best regards Klaus