Luger Artillery Pistol

Vlim · 01-02-2010, 02:17 PM

About the high pressure rounds.

The original 9mm Luger (or 9mm parabellum, whatever) round was designed around a slower burning powder that developed a pressure curve that differed from that of most modern 9mm para ammunition. I agree with Ron that modern high pressure rounds like the +P and +P+ stuff should be avoided, although a luger probably outlives that ammo longer than any other pistol (which would also be beaten to pulp with long term use).

Winchester White Box 115gr and Sellier & Bellot 115 and 124gr are rounds that stick close to the original specifications and are absolutely suitable for the luger pistols. For some milder shooting, the S&B subsonic works quite well also.

Bear in mind that the metallurgy of the older lugers (DWM, Erfurt) differs from that of the later Mauser versions and that, close to 100 years old, metal will begin to fail.

Norme · 01-02-2010, 02:46 PM

I can't speak for the older Lugers, but I have a 41 42 with British proofs. It survived a test round of 15 tons p/s/i (33,600 p/s/i)!

Vlim · 01-02-2010, 02:50 PM

Well, if you want to retest a 1917 luger, here's the proof rounds

And alongside some military issue 9mm from january, 1917.

Norme · 01-02-2010, 02:58 PM

Hi Vlim, Will you provide the gun as well as the test rounds? Regards

Vlim · 01-02-2010, 03:10 PM

Sure,

This old bugger should do. All the bits are 1917

michael1@windstream.net · 01-08-2010, 02:16 PM

My gun was doing the same thing. Upon investigation I found the the trigger lever was not pushing the plunger in on the sear back when it jacked in the next round. Instead it was over-riding the plunger and causing the sear to disengage just as the bolt cloesed up on the second round.
I removed the flat spring and sear bar. I then removed the pin from the sear bar that holds in the plunger and spring.
The inside of the plunger hole was clean but the spring was very stiff. Actually the spring was too stiff.
So instead of the trigger lever pushing the plunger in - it was riding over the top of it and disengaging the sear. The plunger is supposed to push in when the bolt returns to battery. When you release the trigger the plunger pops out and the gun can be fired again.
I chose a weaker spring of the same diameter and trimmed it to length. I made sure the plunger worked in and out easily. It doesn't have to have much pressure - just enough to push the plunger out when you release the trigger.
Put it back together and all is well.

Thought this migh put things into to perspective of how and what that little plunger does.

Mike

rmc · 01-09-2010, 08:12 AM

I can't thank you enough, Mike. Awesome explanation of your problem and how you fixed it.

After getting all of the very helpful information from the Forum, and speaking with several folks, I've decided to field strip the Luger, give it a thorough cleaning, and then put it up for display after a light coat of protective oil. As many of the Forum contributors have written, it is almost 100 years old, and it's not worth stressing the metal/mechanics of the pistol. I'm gong to keep it in as pristine a condition as I can, and then pass it down to my only son. Hopefully, he will have an appreciation of its historical value, and the sentimental value that it has been in the family since his great-uncle brought it home from the war.

Again, many thanks to all who have contributed to my original thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael1@windstream.net

My gun was doing the same thing. Upon investigation I found the the trigger lever was not pushing the plunger in on the sear back when it jacked in the next round. Instead it was over-riding the plunger and causing the sear to disengage just as the bolt cloesed up on the second round.
I removed the flat spring and sear bar. I then removed the pin from the sear bar that holds in the plunger and spring.
The inside of the plunger hole was clean but the spring was very stiff. Actually the spring was too stiff.
So instead of the trigger lever pushing the plunger in - it was riding over the top of it and disengaging the sear. The plunger is supposed to push in when the bolt returns to battery. When you release the trigger the plunger pops out and the gun can be fired again.
I chose a weaker spring of the same diameter and trimmed it to length. I made sure the plunger worked in and out easily. It doesn't have to have much pressure - just enough to push the plunger out when you release the trigger.
Put it back together and all is well.

Thought this migh put things into to perspective of how and what that little plunger does.

Mike

alvin · 01-09-2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

The original 9mm Luger (or 9mm parabellum, whatever) round was designed around a slower burning powder

That's very unusual on pistol cartridge.

Q1: Was it because that DWM did not know fast burning being important in the early stage of auto pistol cartridge design, or was it because they had other concerns or considerations?

Q2: Was slow burning powder unique on DWM 487C (?), or universal on their other pistol cartridges of that era?

TIA

01-02-2010, 02:50 PM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Well, if you want to retest a 1917 luger, here's the proof rounds And alongside some military issue 9mm from january, 1917. Attached Thumbnails

01-02-2010, 03:10 PM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Sure, This old bugger should do. All the bits are 1917 Attached Thumbnails

01-08-2010, 02:16 PM	#6
michael1@windstream.net New User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The solution to the problem. My gun was doing the same thing. Upon investigation I found the the trigger lever was not pushing the plunger in on the sear back when it jacked in the next round. Instead it was over-riding the plunger and causing the sear to disengage just as the bolt cloesed up on the second round. I removed the flat spring and sear bar. I then removed the pin from the sear bar that holds in the plunger and spring. The inside of the plunger hole was clean but the spring was very stiff. Actually the spring was too stiff. So instead of the trigger lever pushing the plunger in - it was riding over the top of it and disengaging the sear. The plunger is supposed to push in when the bolt returns to battery. When you release the trigger the plunger pops out and the gun can be fired again. I chose a weaker spring of the same diameter and trimmed it to length. I made sure the plunger worked in and out easily. It doesn't have to have much pressure - just enough to push the plunger out when you release the trigger. Put it back together and all is well. Thought this migh put things into to perspective of how and what that little plunger does. Mike

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01-02-2010, 02:17 PM	#1
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	About the high pressure rounds. The original 9mm Luger (or 9mm parabellum, whatever) round was designed around a slower burning powder that developed a pressure curve that differed from that of most modern 9mm para ammunition. I agree with Ron that modern high pressure rounds like the +P and +P+ stuff should be avoided, although a luger probably outlives that ammo longer than any other pistol (which would also be beaten to pulp with long term use). Winchester White Box 115gr and Sellier & Bellot 115 and 124gr are rounds that stick close to the original specifications and are absolutely suitable for the luger pistols. For some milder shooting, the S&B subsonic works quite well also. Bear in mind that the metallurgy of the older lugers (DWM, Erfurt) differs from that of the later Mauser versions and that, close to 100 years old, metal will begin to fail.

01-02-2010, 02:46 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	I can't speak for the older Lugers, but I have a 41 42 with British proofs. It survived a test round of 15 tons p/s/i (33,600 p/s/i)!

01-02-2010, 02:58 PM	#4
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Vlim, Will you provide the gun as well as the test rounds? Regards