DWM Commercial 1911-1913 (?)

Pistol · 09-05-2009, 10:25 AM

Thank you very much Klaus for the information. You are like an Encyclopedia. And thanks to jamese for the translation. I had translated through another site, and was going to post today in English for others. There were some mimor variations in my translation, but it helped me to see both translations to get the best meaning. These computer translations seem to do a good job, but loose a little of the intended meaning in the translation.

On the hold-open and site. Either the officer did not have time to have it sent in for the modifications, or did not want to pay the 2.80 gold mark for the change.

Regarding the black dye. If I understand correctly there was a 1915 order about care and blackening of holsters. Blackening was more applicable to the Ordonnanpistole and not the officer's PO8 holsters, which typically remained brown. Furthermore, based upon Klaus's collection of 50 holsters dating from 1909-1911, only three of these were blackened.

So, it is possible then that my 1911 holster in question was blackned shortly after the 1915 order, and the black dye would be consider consistent with that period. However, it is more likely that it was blackned years later subsequent to WWI.

So, the owner served in the 1st Battalion of the Bavarian 16th Intantry Regiment, or in the 2nd battalion of the Bavarian 2nd Reserve Infantrie Regiment. And both of these were part of theBavarian 1st Army Corps. I saw in a post by Jan Still, that the 16th infantry Regiment was part of the 1st, 10th, and 11th Bavarian Infantry Divisons during WWI. It was part of 1st 1914 to March 1915, when it joined the 10th Bavarian Division. It became part of 11th Bavarian Div. in August 1918. Is this the same 16th Bavarian Regiment on the holster. Jan has a good timeline on his post. I want to ensure I don't have this confused with a differnt regiment.

klaus 3338 · 09-05-2009, 06:45 PM

Pistol,
It could have been during the Great War that a regiment was in several Infantry divisions but before the war two Infantry regiments made an Infantry Brigade and two Brigades made an Infantry Division.

I attach some photos of blacked holsters according the 1915 dated order.

The first three photos are showing a brown holster of the 2 squadron of the Dragoon Regiment No. 22. The next photos are showing a blacked holster of the 1 squadron of the same Regiment.

The next two photos are showing a blacked Bavarian holster.

Regards Klaus

Pistol · 09-06-2009, 12:15 AM

Interesting. Is the inside of the top flap ever blackend on the 1915 blackend holsters? I ask becasue my holster is dyed black on the inside flap/top. But the inside portion where the gun fits in is dark brown. Just like your photos.

If the inside top flap was never blackend, would that mean my holster was blackened years later after WWI?

In your final photo. Why does that holster have a significant portion brown on the right. Did the black dye wear off, or was it not blackend completly/entirely?

Was the holster stitching also blackend or left white.

Thanks again.

09-05-2009, 10:25 AM	#1
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA - TN Posts: 435 Thanks: 470 Thanked 223 Times in 102 Posts	Thanks! Thank you very much Klaus for the information. You are like an Encyclopedia. And thanks to jamese for the translation. I had translated through another site, and was going to post today in English for others. There were some mimor variations in my translation, but it helped me to see both translations to get the best meaning. These computer translations seem to do a good job, but loose a little of the intended meaning in the translation. On the hold-open and site. Either the officer did not have time to have it sent in for the modifications, or did not want to pay the 2.80 gold mark for the change. Regarding the black dye. If I understand correctly there was a 1915 order about care and blackening of holsters. Blackening was more applicable to the Ordonnanpistole and not the officer's PO8 holsters, which typically remained brown. Furthermore, based upon Klaus's collection of 50 holsters dating from 1909-1911, only three of these were blackened. So, it is possible then that my 1911 holster in question was blackned shortly after the 1915 order, and the black dye would be consider consistent with that period. However, it is more likely that it was blackned years later subsequent to WWI. So, the owner served in the 1st Battalion of the Bavarian 16th Intantry Regiment, or in the 2nd battalion of the Bavarian 2nd Reserve Infantrie Regiment. And both of these were part of theBavarian 1st Army Corps. I saw in a post by Jan Still, that the 16th infantry Regiment was part of the 1st, 10th, and 11th Bavarian Infantry Divisons during WWI. It was part of 1st 1914 to March 1915, when it joined the 10th Bavarian Division. It became part of 11th Bavarian Div. in August 1918. Is this the same 16th Bavarian Regiment on the holster. Jan has a good timeline on his post. I want to ensure I don't have this confused with a differnt regiment. Last edited by Pistol; 02-23-2019 at 06:02 PM.

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09-06-2009, 12:15 AM	#3
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA - TN Posts: 435 Thanks: 470 Thanked 223 Times in 102 Posts	Interesting. Is the inside of the top flap ever blackend on the 1915 blackend holsters? I ask becasue my holster is dyed black on the inside flap/top. But the inside portion where the gun fits in is dark brown. Just like your photos. If the inside top flap was never blackend, would that mean my holster was blackened years later after WWI? In your final photo. Why does that holster have a significant portion brown on the right. Did the black dye wear off, or was it not blackend completly/entirely? Was the holster stitching also blackend or left white. Thanks again.