.30 Caliber failure to feed

G.T. · 07-03-2009, 11:34 PM

Hi W2ec, it would be interesting to put your original spring back in and repeat the same test with your new load??... just a thought, best to you, til...lat'r...GT

w2ec · 07-04-2009, 10:18 AM

G.T.

Yes, good idea and yes I'm going to try that. The more I manipulate the toggle by hand the more I am convinced that the new Wolff spring is considerably stiffer than the original in my pistol. One other factor is that with the original spring I never had a round fail to extract/eject. It seems that with the "light" factory loads, the Wolff spring may be so stiff that it won't even allow the toggle to come back far enough to extract the case. When I fire the gun, I do feel recoil of course and I do sense movement of the toggle, but not much. My handloads that actually fully functioned the action were certainly brisker than the factory loads.

When I put the original spring back in I will also drop my test reloads back some as I may not need that much power with the original spring. I will also use the "tape" across the back of the frame as someone else mentioned, to get an idea of what is happening there. That will give me something else to try when I get off duty today and get home later this afternoon.

A question for the group, opinions welcome....... since I can get the luger to function fine with the new Wolff spring using my handloads that do not exhibit over pressure signs, should I eventually keep the Wolff spring in or, if I can get the pistol to function with the original spring and my handloads, would you use the Wolff spring and hotter loads or the original spring with hopefully lighter loads?

Hugh · 07-05-2009, 02:14 AM

These loads worked fine in my Lugers, but I am posting them for information only, use at your on risk. ( Usual lawyer induced "I ain't responsible, etc, crap!)

PhilOhio · 07-05-2009, 12:36 PM

W2ec,

Regarding your question about what to do, it looks like you plan to shoot the pistol a good bit, so my thinking is that it's good to try to do it in a way which will put the least wear on a nice collector gun. That's why I use my own cast lead bullets in everything I shoot. And that's why I never use unnecessarily steamed up handloads. Bore wear is just about zero and the cycling parts do not take a beating.

I would do it this way. Consider the relatively inexpensive Wolff spring a sacrificial lamb. Find the load which lets the gun function with the original spring. Then install the Wolff spring. Obviously, it won't work well, or perhaps at all; too stiff. With a Dremel cutoff tool, remove only one full coil at a time.

You will reach a point where the gun will eject and reload maybe 50% of the time. Remove one more full coil and see if you get 100% reliability. If not remove more, but only about 1/3 coil at a time.

What you accomplish by doing this so conservatively is that you get functional reliability, but also minimize the impact force of the "stop" surface of the rear toggle link when it hits the rear vertical face of the grip frame. If your loads are too powerful in recoil energy, this is the highly visible area which gets slowly peened and is likely to influence collector value.

Take a look at Lugers offered for sale, and this rear surface tells the tale. It can't be fudged. If the area is dished or rounded and refinished, the evidence is only more revealing and should make you more closely examine other parts of the gun.

Bungalocity · 07-21-2009, 08:08 PM

Hi there,
Today I got my 1920's DWM .30 like yours, and upon testing it in the range with Fiocchi ($30/50 as opposed to the Winchester $40/50) I went through 40 rounds with only one jam.

Like yours it was pointing upward about 45˚ into the chamber.
Had the range worker pull it out by hand, I wasn't going to touch it!
Left some knicks on the lead.

I hadn't oiled it or anything. The mag is aluminum and they seemed to think since it doesn't match anyway, it was a WWII later era.

So, maybe next time I'll try the Winchesters!
Good luck, hope you solve it all and let us know what you think it may be!

PS - I cannot recall the locking mechanism staying up after the clip was exhausted.

w2ec · 07-22-2009, 04:19 PM

Got sidetracked away from my luger and on to a C-96 I picked up at a gunshow.

I did do a little more with my Luger. Put the original spring back in, neither Winchester or Fiocchi will function, fail to lock back or feed next round. Pulled some bullets from both Fiocchi and Winchester, dumped the powder and used my 5.5gr AA#5 load and reseated the 93gr bullets. Every round functioned perfectly. So I'm going to pull all the bullets (got a couple hundred Fiocchi and about 50 Winchester left). Time consuming, but at least I can make the ammo work. Even 6.0 gr of AA#5 wouldn't function the Wolff 36# spring, so it must be far stiffer than the original. Used the tape technique across the back with the original spring and it gives a good crease, but doesn't cut through, so it looks like it is OK to use the original spring without battering the rear of the frame. Later I'll try cutting the Wolff spring down a bit.

Off-topic, but maybe of interest, picked up a C-96, very little finish left, but barrel appears clean with nice rifling, a little dark but it doesn't appear to be shot out. 30 Mauser. Pistol was pretty cheap (especially for a C-96) so I expected to find problems. I was surprised to find all matching serial numbers, maybe that is not unusual with C-96's. It's an M-30 but doesn't have the three "made in germany" chinese characters stamped on it. Took it apart to inspect, no damage to bolt stop or frame where the bolt stop hits. Finally found what was wrong, although the owner said it shot fine. The firing pin was snapped in two where the narrow part of the firing pin meets the full width part, i.e. where the firing pin spring threads onto the firing pin. If he fired this gun, he was real lucky the pin didn't jam and go full auto on him! Or maybe he fired it and one day it just quit when the pin broke. Anyway, I have a new firing pin, spring, recoil spring and hammer spring on order. Everything else looked to be in near perfect shape, except for the finish of course. So now I have my first Luger and my first C-96. Both obtained just from browsing and at what I consider to be reasonable prices.

More on my luger loads when I get back to it.

07-03-2009, 11:34 PM	#1
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,541 Thanks: 1,342 Thanked 3,742 Times in 1,020 Posts	try, try, again? Hi W2ec, it would be interesting to put your original spring back in and repeat the same test with your new load??... just a thought, best to you, til...lat'r...GT

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

07-04-2009, 10:18 AM	#2
w2ec User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Apalachin, NY Posts: 12 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	G.T. Yes, good idea and yes I'm going to try that. The more I manipulate the toggle by hand the more I am convinced that the new Wolff spring is considerably stiffer than the original in my pistol. One other factor is that with the original spring I never had a round fail to extract/eject. It seems that with the "light" factory loads, the Wolff spring may be so stiff that it won't even allow the toggle to come back far enough to extract the case. When I fire the gun, I do feel recoil of course and I do sense movement of the toggle, but not much. My handloads that actually fully functioned the action were certainly brisker than the factory loads. When I put the original spring back in I will also drop my test reloads back some as I may not need that much power with the original spring. I will also use the "tape" across the back of the frame as someone else mentioned, to get an idea of what is happening there. That will give me something else to try when I get off duty today and get home later this afternoon. A question for the group, opinions welcome....... since I can get the luger to function fine with the new Wolff spring using my handloads that do not exhibit over pressure signs, should I eventually keep the Wolff spring in or, if I can get the pistol to function with the original spring and my handloads, would you use the Wolff spring and hotter loads or the original spring with hopefully lighter loads?

07-05-2009, 12:36 PM	#4
PhilOhio User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 145 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	W2ec, Regarding your question about what to do, it looks like you plan to shoot the pistol a good bit, so my thinking is that it's good to try to do it in a way which will put the least wear on a nice collector gun. That's why I use my own cast lead bullets in everything I shoot. And that's why I never use unnecessarily steamed up handloads. Bore wear is just about zero and the cycling parts do not take a beating. I would do it this way. Consider the relatively inexpensive Wolff spring a sacrificial lamb. Find the load which lets the gun function with the original spring. Then install the Wolff spring. Obviously, it won't work well, or perhaps at all; too stiff. With a Dremel cutoff tool, remove only one full coil at a time. You will reach a point where the gun will eject and reload maybe 50% of the time. Remove one more full coil and see if you get 100% reliability. If not remove more, but only about 1/3 coil at a time. What you accomplish by doing this so conservatively is that you get functional reliability, but also minimize the impact force of the "stop" surface of the rear toggle link when it hits the rear vertical face of the grip frame. If your loads are too powerful in recoil energy, this is the highly visible area which gets slowly peened and is likely to influence collector value. Take a look at Lugers offered for sale, and this rear surface tells the tale. It can't be fudged. If the area is dished or rounded and refinished, the evidence is only more revealing and should make you more closely examine other parts of the gun.

07-22-2009, 04:19 PM	#6
w2ec User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Apalachin, NY Posts: 12 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Got sidetracked away from my luger and on to a C-96 I picked up at a gunshow. I did do a little more with my Luger. Put the original spring back in, neither Winchester or Fiocchi will function, fail to lock back or feed next round. Pulled some bullets from both Fiocchi and Winchester, dumped the powder and used my 5.5gr AA#5 load and reseated the 93gr bullets. Every round functioned perfectly. So I'm going to pull all the bullets (got a couple hundred Fiocchi and about 50 Winchester left). Time consuming, but at least I can make the ammo work. Even 6.0 gr of AA#5 wouldn't function the Wolff 36# spring, so it must be far stiffer than the original. Used the tape technique across the back with the original spring and it gives a good crease, but doesn't cut through, so it looks like it is OK to use the original spring without battering the rear of the frame. Later I'll try cutting the Wolff spring down a bit. Off-topic, but maybe of interest, picked up a C-96, very little finish left, but barrel appears clean with nice rifling, a little dark but it doesn't appear to be shot out. 30 Mauser. Pistol was pretty cheap (especially for a C-96) so I expected to find problems. I was surprised to find all matching serial numbers, maybe that is not unusual with C-96's. It's an M-30 but doesn't have the three "made in germany" chinese characters stamped on it. Took it apart to inspect, no damage to bolt stop or frame where the bolt stop hits. Finally found what was wrong, although the owner said it shot fine. The firing pin was snapped in two where the narrow part of the firing pin meets the full width part, i.e. where the firing pin spring threads onto the firing pin. If he fired this gun, he was real lucky the pin didn't jam and go full auto on him! Or maybe he fired it and one day it just quit when the pin broke. Anyway, I have a new firing pin, spring, recoil spring and hammer spring on order. Everything else looked to be in near perfect shape, except for the finish of course. So now I have my first Luger and my first C-96. Both obtained just from browsing and at what I consider to be reasonable prices. More on my luger loads when I get back to it.