Class III weapons

alanint · 06-13-2009, 01:26 PM

Phil,

You did not point out the biggest stumbling block with the "normal" transfer process, which you described.
This process requires a law enforcement signature. In a place like rural Ohio this may not be an issue but many people who have tried to obtain a title 2 weapon using this process tend to find that their police chief or chief law enforcement officer for their area will refuse to sign. Most LEOs see signing as political suicide. This is especially true in most urban areas. No signature-no transfer.
This is why most people have taken the corporation or trust route. No fingerprints, no photographs, just a background check on the person and the legal status of the corporation or trust. Most important, no interference from local LEO. They are not involved in the process at all.
To answer Alvin's question, MP18s are fairly rare. Most have been converted to MP28 configuration, since trommel magazines are fairly rare and a typical P08 mag does not last long on full auto. The last MP18 I saw was priced around $14-15. You can still find MG08/15s for that price!
Check websites like Subguns.com and Sturmgewehr.com regularly until one comes up. If you seriously want to buy I can put word out on my net and probably locate one for you.

PhilOhio · 06-14-2009, 09:53 PM

Alanint is right about the CLEO signature being a problem in many places. I was hesitant to bore everybody by going into non-Luger detail on that one. A few years back, the firearms prohibitionists added this minor roadblock to the law, in an obvious attempt to give regional anti-gun politician cops an arbitrary tool to sandbag law abiding would-be Class III purchasers even in states permitting it.

The good people of one state, Tennessee or Kentucky as I recall, fixed that by passing another law saying the chief law enforcement official WILL sign the form unless he has specific reason why the purchase should be blocked.

And if you run into one of these politician cops, you have lots of alternatives besides going the corporation or trust route. If you live in town, you may first go to the chief of police. If he balks, you are allowed to go to the next level, which is EITHER your county sheriff or a judge. If they give you the bums rush, you can eventually go to the state attorney general. I.e., you work your way up through the CLEO chain of command, so to speak. Few have to carry it that far.

It's a bit difficult for a local or state official to explain why a law abiding adult citizen who can pass a rigid FBI investigation cannot be trusted to own a restricted firearm or controlled item such as a sound suppressor. Years ago I was idly talking with some ATF people in the metropolitan Washington area, when I lived and worked there. They openly scoffed at some of this prohibitionist legislation, which merely clogs up their system; most of them are gun people, too. They said they never ever have problems with people who make the effort to follow the rules. Why harrass them?

...which is what we all know and say to each other.

(Matter of fact, the time of that discussion was when I was moving out of the D.C. area, back to hometown Ohio, and there was an hours long delay at ATF headquarters, where I needed to get an interstate transport permit for a couple machineguns signed. Seems they had lost all the registration paperwork, and the hunt took a long time. ...which, it turns out, was quite common in the '80s and early '90s, before computerized records systems were instituted and debugged.)

Pistol Whipped · 06-15-2009, 07:20 PM

This is great information; getting a Class -III has been on my plate for a while now. The CLEO was the one aspect of getting a Class-III that has always concerned me. I live in a small town just about 20 miles south of Austin, Texas and I really donâ??t know what my local CLEO attitude toward this would be. But Iâ??m the sort of person who always likes to have a plan â??Bâ? that can be quickly enacted if my first approach fails. I was considering the lawyer route but doing the chain-of-command thing is something I had not considered, thanks!

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06-13-2009, 01:26 PM	#1
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Phil, You did not point out the biggest stumbling block with the "normal" transfer process, which you described. This process requires a law enforcement signature. In a place like rural Ohio this may not be an issue but many people who have tried to obtain a title 2 weapon using this process tend to find that their police chief or chief law enforcement officer for their area will refuse to sign. Most LEOs see signing as political suicide. This is especially true in most urban areas. No signature-no transfer. This is why most people have taken the corporation or trust route. No fingerprints, no photographs, just a background check on the person and the legal status of the corporation or trust. Most important, no interference from local LEO. They are not involved in the process at all. To answer Alvin's question, MP18s are fairly rare. Most have been converted to MP28 configuration, since trommel magazines are fairly rare and a typical P08 mag does not last long on full auto. The last MP18 I saw was priced around $14-15. You can still find MG08/15s for that price! Check websites like Subguns.com and Sturmgewehr.com regularly until one comes up. If you seriously want to buy I can put word out on my net and probably locate one for you.

06-14-2009, 09:53 PM	#2
PhilOhio User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 145 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	Alanint is right about the CLEO signature being a problem in many places. I was hesitant to bore everybody by going into non-Luger detail on that one. A few years back, the firearms prohibitionists added this minor roadblock to the law, in an obvious attempt to give regional anti-gun politician cops an arbitrary tool to sandbag law abiding would-be Class III purchasers even in states permitting it. The good people of one state, Tennessee or Kentucky as I recall, fixed that by passing another law saying the chief law enforcement official WILL sign the form unless he has specific reason why the purchase should be blocked. And if you run into one of these politician cops, you have lots of alternatives besides going the corporation or trust route. If you live in town, you may first go to the chief of police. If he balks, you are allowed to go to the next level, which is EITHER your county sheriff or a judge. If they give you the bums rush, you can eventually go to the state attorney general. I.e., you work your way up through the CLEO chain of command, so to speak. Few have to carry it that far. It's a bit difficult for a local or state official to explain why a law abiding adult citizen who can pass a rigid FBI investigation cannot be trusted to own a restricted firearm or controlled item such as a sound suppressor. Years ago I was idly talking with some ATF people in the metropolitan Washington area, when I lived and worked there. They openly scoffed at some of this prohibitionist legislation, which merely clogs up their system; most of them are gun people, too. They said they never ever have problems with people who make the effort to follow the rules. Why harrass them? ...which is what we all know and say to each other. (Matter of fact, the time of that discussion was when I was moving out of the D.C. area, back to hometown Ohio, and there was an hours long delay at ATF headquarters, where I needed to get an interstate transport permit for a couple machineguns signed. Seems they had lost all the registration paperwork, and the hunt took a long time. ...which, it turns out, was quite common in the '80s and early '90s, before computerized records systems were instituted and debugged.)

06-15-2009, 07:20 PM	#3
Pistol Whipped User Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This is great information; getting a Class -III has been on my plate for a while now. The CLEO was the one aspect of getting a Class-III that has always concerned me. I live in a small town just about 20 miles south of Austin, Texas and I really donâ??t know what my local CLEO attitude toward this would be. But Iâ??m the sort of person who always likes to have a plan â??Bâ? that can be quickly enacted if my first approach fails. I was considering the lawyer route but doing the chain-of-command thing is something I had not considered, thanks!