Taper Crimp?

Sieger · 05-09-2009, 07:38 PM

PhilOhio

I hassled with Luger loads, starting in the '60s, and eventually gave up on it. I had a minty 1937 S/42 (sadly traded away) and my current almost minty 1917 artillery. The latter worked pretty well. The S/42...not very reliable. In retrospect, it was almost certainly the mag on the S/42.

ITS ALL IN THE SPRINGS, MAGAZINE AND RECOIL. IF THESE ARE OUT OF SPEC, FORGET RELIABILITY

Just this week I acquired a very nice 1937 S/42, to correct my bygone trading stupidity. This time, I have more than $40 in it. And I have it running quite well.

For many years, my standard load for pistol and SMG has been 4.5 gr. Bullseye and Lyman's 120 gr. 2-groove RN lead bullet. You need some oomph to run a slam loader. And Lee's truncated cone version works O.K. in some guns. Now I find it works in the Luger as well...which surprised me.

"NARROW" TC BULLETS ARE JUST WHAT LUGER ORIGINALLY DESIGNED THE PISTOL TO SHOOT! LEE'S SHOULD BE LOADED TO 29MM FOR EXCELLENT FUNCTION, AS PROPER AOL IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL WITH THE LUGER DESIGN!

So just this week I learned that 4.5 gr. is way too much for the Luger. I tried 3.7 grains, which some of you use. That's fine, but shoots way high in this gun. I tried everything from 3.5 gr. to 4.0 gr., in .1 gr. increments. And for the time being, I like 3.5 gr. It still shoots about 4" high at 50 feet.

YOU ARE HITTING TO POINT OF AIM AT 50 METERS, THE ORIGINAL SIGHT-IN RANGE. AIM AT THE EDGE OF THE BLACK AND WHITE AT 6 O'CLOCK AND THE PISTOL SHOULD HIT DEAD BULL AT 25 METERS.

I have an excellent gun but only a "good" bore on the S/42, so group is 4" to 6"...not at all good. With 4.5 gr., it was shooting over 12" high at 50', and nothing on the gun is bent or tampered or out of alignment.

4.5 OF BULLSEYE IS WAY TOO MUCH IN THE LUGER. HERE IS THE REAL DEAL. THE LUGER WORKS BEST AND GETS BEST ACCURACY WITH MEDIUM TO SLOW BURNING POWDERS. TRY SOME "POWER PISTOL" OR SOME "SR4756" AND YOU WILL BE SHOCKED BY THE IMPROVEMENT!!

The problem with all these lead loads is that you cannot get cartridge OAL out there where it should be, not anywhere close to 1.169". Seating the RN out to the absolute max, all I can get is 1.105" OAL. But this feeds 100% reliably, so I can live with that. And in the last 50 - 70 rounds, I have not had a single (low power) stove pipe with the 3.5 gr. load. So I'm crossing my fingers to see if I can get away with the 3.5 gr. charge. It "feels" right in my hand, when I shoot it. After 50 years of this, you can sort of sense when everything is running right.

SIMPLY LOAD YOUR BULLETS WITH THE GREASE GROVE SHOWING. FOR ROUND NOSE, YOU SHOULD LOAD TO 1.169 TO 1.73, FOR TC BULLETS TO 1.15. REMEMBER, AOL IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL FOR PROPER FUNCTION!!!

If I get any short cycle glitches, I'll probably go to my friend's favorite standard load of 3.6 gr. with this bullet, or the 3.7 gr. which so many on this board use. But I'd like to keep it low, to keep the gun from shooting so high. An increase of only .1 gr. seems to make this gun shoot almost 2" higher! Which I never would have guessed.

FOR BULLS EYE, THE 124 GRAIN BULLET LIKES 3.7 GRAINS, FOR THE 115 GRAIN USE 3.8 GRAINS. THESE ARE MY ACCURACY LOADS WITH BULLSEYE.

And that's a part of the fun of all this. There are always surprises and you continually learn, even after years of shooting and reloading. I've usually had a Luger or two on hand since about 1957, but I'm having more fun with them now than then. Just wish prices were the same as way back then, and I'd have a bunch. In retrospect, I realize that I bought my first S/42 in a Toledo pawn shop when it was only 20 years old and in mint condition. It was the same with 1911s.

OH WELL, I WAS BORN IN 1956, SO YOU HAVE HAD AN OPPORTYNITY TO ENJOY THESE LITTLE JEWELS LONGER THAN I HAVE!!

(The only good part of it was that I traded the S/42 even-up to my buddy for his 1947 Harley "74", then in bushel baskets. Yep, traded that off also.)

BUY A FEW MEC-GAR MAGAZINES FOR ABOUT $27.00 EACH, AS THIS SHOULD GREATLY IMPROVE THE RELIABILITY OF YOUR PISTOLS.

SIEGER

PhilOhio · 05-10-2009, 11:59 AM

Sieger,

Thanks for all that info. I have a lot of load experimentation yet to do. And I want to get that impact point lowered. Some of what you posted should help me do that.

I hate to have to tailor loads to specific firearms, but in the case of the Luger, I doubt that there is an alternative. Now I am about to test whether "Luger loads" will operate some of my other pistols in the same caliber.

I really like SR4756. It's my favorite powder for the 12 ga. slug loads I use for deer hunting; absolute best accuracy. I never thought of using it in pistols.

I thought about loading with the lube groove exposed, but I prefer not to, since the loads require such careful "bench shooting only" type handling.

I need to find somebody who sells Mecgar mags at a low price and who has them in stock. Wideners is down to one mag, and "might" have more "in a few months". I want to buy two.

Sieger · 05-11-2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilOhio

Sieger,
I need to find somebody who sells Mecgar mags at a low price and who has them in stock. Wideners is down to one mag, and "might" have more "in a few months". I want to buy two.

PhilOhio:

GalatiInternational.com has them for $29.95, in stock!

Sieger

PhilOhio · 05-11-2009, 01:22 PM

Thanks. I'm still holding out for those lower Widener's prices.

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05-09-2009, 07:38 PM	#1
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,579 Thanks: 2,144 Thanked 402 Times in 251 Posts	PhilOhio I hassled with Luger loads, starting in the '60s, and eventually gave up on it. I had a minty 1937 S/42 (sadly traded away) and my current almost minty 1917 artillery. The latter worked pretty well. The S/42...not very reliable. In retrospect, it was almost certainly the mag on the S/42. ITS ALL IN THE SPRINGS, MAGAZINE AND RECOIL. IF THESE ARE OUT OF SPEC, FORGET RELIABILITY Just this week I acquired a very nice 1937 S/42, to correct my bygone trading stupidity. This time, I have more than $40 in it. And I have it running quite well. For many years, my standard load for pistol and SMG has been 4.5 gr. Bullseye and Lyman's 120 gr. 2-groove RN lead bullet. You need some oomph to run a slam loader. And Lee's truncated cone version works O.K. in some guns. Now I find it works in the Luger as well...which surprised me. "NARROW" TC BULLETS ARE JUST WHAT LUGER ORIGINALLY DESIGNED THE PISTOL TO SHOOT! LEE'S SHOULD BE LOADED TO 29MM FOR EXCELLENT FUNCTION, AS PROPER AOL IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL WITH THE LUGER DESIGN! So just this week I learned that 4.5 gr. is way too much for the Luger. I tried 3.7 grains, which some of you use. That's fine, but shoots way high in this gun. I tried everything from 3.5 gr. to 4.0 gr., in .1 gr. increments. And for the time being, I like 3.5 gr. It still shoots about 4" high at 50 feet. YOU ARE HITTING TO POINT OF AIM AT 50 METERS, THE ORIGINAL SIGHT-IN RANGE. AIM AT THE EDGE OF THE BLACK AND WHITE AT 6 O'CLOCK AND THE PISTOL SHOULD HIT DEAD BULL AT 25 METERS. I have an excellent gun but only a "good" bore on the S/42, so group is 4" to 6"...not at all good. With 4.5 gr., it was shooting over 12" high at 50', and nothing on the gun is bent or tampered or out of alignment. 4.5 OF BULLSEYE IS WAY TOO MUCH IN THE LUGER. HERE IS THE REAL DEAL. THE LUGER WORKS BEST AND GETS BEST ACCURACY WITH MEDIUM TO SLOW BURNING POWDERS. TRY SOME "POWER PISTOL" OR SOME "SR4756" AND YOU WILL BE SHOCKED BY THE IMPROVEMENT!! The problem with all these lead loads is that you cannot get cartridge OAL out there where it should be, not anywhere close to 1.169". Seating the RN out to the absolute max, all I can get is 1.105" OAL. But this feeds 100% reliably, so I can live with that. And in the last 50 - 70 rounds, I have not had a single (low power) stove pipe with the 3.5 gr. load. So I'm crossing my fingers to see if I can get away with the 3.5 gr. charge. It "feels" right in my hand, when I shoot it. After 50 years of this, you can sort of sense when everything is running right. SIMPLY LOAD YOUR BULLETS WITH THE GREASE GROVE SHOWING. FOR ROUND NOSE, YOU SHOULD LOAD TO 1.169 TO 1.73, FOR TC BULLETS TO 1.15. REMEMBER, AOL IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL FOR PROPER FUNCTION!!! If I get any short cycle glitches, I'll probably go to my friend's favorite standard load of 3.6 gr. with this bullet, or the 3.7 gr. which so many on this board use. But I'd like to keep it low, to keep the gun from shooting so high. An increase of only .1 gr. seems to make this gun shoot almost 2" higher! Which I never would have guessed. FOR BULLS EYE, THE 124 GRAIN BULLET LIKES 3.7 GRAINS, FOR THE 115 GRAIN USE 3.8 GRAINS. THESE ARE MY ACCURACY LOADS WITH BULLSEYE. And that's a part of the fun of all this. There are always surprises and you continually learn, even after years of shooting and reloading. I've usually had a Luger or two on hand since about 1957, but I'm having more fun with them now than then. Just wish prices were the same as way back then, and I'd have a bunch. In retrospect, I realize that I bought my first S/42 in a Toledo pawn shop when it was only 20 years old and in mint condition. It was the same with 1911s. OH WELL, I WAS BORN IN 1956, SO YOU HAVE HAD AN OPPORTYNITY TO ENJOY THESE LITTLE JEWELS LONGER THAN I HAVE!! (The only good part of it was that I traded the S/42 even-up to my buddy for his 1947 Harley "74", then in bushel baskets. Yep, traded that off also.) BUY A FEW MEC-GAR MAGAZINES FOR ABOUT $27.00 EACH, AS THIS SHOULD GREATLY IMPROVE THE RELIABILITY OF YOUR PISTOLS. SIEGER

05-10-2009, 11:59 AM	#2
PhilOhio User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 145 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	Sieger, Thanks for all that info. I have a lot of load experimentation yet to do. And I want to get that impact point lowered. Some of what you posted should help me do that. I hate to have to tailor loads to specific firearms, but in the case of the Luger, I doubt that there is an alternative. Now I am about to test whether "Luger loads" will operate some of my other pistols in the same caliber. I really like SR4756. It's my favorite powder for the 12 ga. slug loads I use for deer hunting; absolute best accuracy. I never thought of using it in pistols. I thought about loading with the lube groove exposed, but I prefer not to, since the loads require such careful "bench shooting only" type handling. I need to find somebody who sells Mecgar mags at a low price and who has them in stock. Wideners is down to one mag, and "might" have more "in a few months". I want to buy two.

05-11-2009, 01:22 PM	#4
PhilOhio User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 145 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	Thanks. I'm still holding out for those lower Widener's prices.