Trying to find info on new luger purchase

Ron Smith · 03-14-2009, 08:02 PM

Duane,

You have a rather odd luger there. As Alvin says, no military proofs, the frame is pre-1913(no stock lug), no "Crown N" commercial proofs. Most numbers match with the exception of the rear toggle link. The safety has been force matched. This is weird, since it looks correct otherwise.

Is the barrel serial numbered or marked? Are there any "Crown N" stamps on it anywhere?

Ron

Ingvarg · 03-14-2009, 08:19 PM

Strange

The frame looks pre 1913 millitary, as previusly said, no stock lug and also I noticed a later added hold open. I thougt that would never been found on comercial Lugers ??
No year mark would tell us 1909 but the rest of the markings wont fit to that ?

Also the ser. number would fit in the 1909 production, Right ?

I would guess this is a first contract 1909 with later armorers or factory replaced and force matched upper.

LugerVern · 03-14-2009, 08:24 PM

Hold open has been added, note the proof on the right side of the frame.

I also see a crown N on the toggle.

also:

Is that a proof mark on the back side of the frame?

Vern

Ingvarg · 03-14-2009, 08:51 PM

It would be interesting to se some pic underneath the barrel, and on top of the front sight blade to see if that has been replaced.

dtu2179 · 03-15-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ingvarg

It would be interesting to se some pic underneath the barrel, and on top of the front sight blade to see if that has been replaced.

Actually there is a marking on the front sight (see photos) but I cant make it out. Also something oon the right side of the frame (see photos) but again, I cant make it out.

Ingvarg · 03-15-2009, 04:14 PM

Thanks.

The proof mark on top of the front sight base means tha the front sight has been replaced, most likely at the same time the hold open was added. There are no ser# on the barrel and the alignment mark at the front sight is missing which tells us that the barrel is likely a reaplacement.
On couple of those pics it looks like there is a faint proof mark on the right sight of the chamber which is correct.
Also it is possible this pistol has an early reblue as the pin for the hold open should be in white, not blue. That could also explain the faint proof marks.

Please correct me if IÃ?Â´m wrong.

dtu2179 · 03-15-2009, 08:47 PM

Just by looking at it, it looks like it has been re-blued at some point a while ago. Although the dealer claimed that it had not. The dealer clearly misrepresented it to me, which is disheartening. I'm hoping to ballpark a year of manufacture just for my information.

Ingvarg · 03-15-2009, 09:49 PM

Well: At least the frame is 1909-1913 military, as can be seen by the added hold open and replaced front sight, which was done in 1913, but the top makes it a bit confusing. 1909 is the only year not having the year stamped on top of the chamber, but then the proof marks should be on the left side of the chamber. Also most of the numbered parts should have the numbers "hidden" for that year.
In 1910 the proof marks are moved to the right side, and the year stamped on top of the chamber.
I am not sure about the serial numbers for 1910-1913 but as far as I know yours could fit in the 1909 ser# range.

If you look at my album you can see how the markings are suposed to be on 1909 P08
http://forum.lugerforum.com/album.php?albumid=60

dtu2179 · 03-15-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LugerVern

Hold open has been added, note the proof on the right side of the frame.

I also see a crown N on the toggle.

also:

Is that a proof mark on the back side of the frame?

Vern

No. I don't see any proof marks on the back of the frame. I added some more photos of that area.

dtu2179 · 03-15-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

Duane,

You have a rather odd luger there. As Alvin says, no military proofs, the frame is pre-1913(no stock lug), no "Crown N" commercial proofs. Most numbers match with the exception of the rear toggle link. The safety has been force matched. This is weird, since it looks correct otherwise.

Is the barrel serial numbered or marked? Are there any "Crown N" stamps on it anywhere?

Ron

Nope. No other numbers or stamps. Just what you see in the pictures. Also the grips are marked with "72" to match the numbers on the frame.

03-14-2009, 08:02 PM	#1
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Duane, You have a rather odd luger there. As Alvin says, no military proofs, the frame is pre-1913(no stock lug), no "Crown N" commercial proofs. Most numbers match with the exception of the rear toggle link. The safety has been force matched. This is weird, since it looks correct otherwise. Is the barrel serial numbered or marked? Are there any "Crown N" stamps on it anywhere? Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

03-14-2009, 08:19 PM	#2
Ingvarg User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Iceland Posts: 103 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Strange The frame looks pre 1913 millitary, as previusly said, no stock lug and also I noticed a later added hold open. I thougt that would never been found on comercial Lugers ?? No year mark would tell us 1909 but the rest of the markings wont fit to that ? Also the ser. number would fit in the 1909 production, Right ? I would guess this is a first contract 1909 with later armorers or factory replaced and force matched upper. __________________ Regards: Ingvar

03-14-2009, 08:51 PM	#4
Ingvarg User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Iceland Posts: 103 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	It would be interesting to se some pic underneath the barrel, and on top of the front sight blade to see if that has been replaced. __________________ Regards: Ingvar

03-15-2009, 04:14 PM	#6
Ingvarg User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Iceland Posts: 103 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks. The proof mark on top of the front sight base means tha the front sight has been replaced, most likely at the same time the hold open was added. There are no ser# on the barrel and the alignment mark at the front sight is missing which tells us that the barrel is likely a reaplacement. On couple of those pics it looks like there is a faint proof mark on the right sight of the chamber which is correct. Also it is possible this pistol has an early reblue as the pin for the hold open should be in white, not blue. That could also explain the faint proof marks. Please correct me if IÃ?Â´m wrong. __________________ Regards: Ingvar

03-15-2009, 09:49 PM	#8
Ingvarg User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Iceland Posts: 103 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Well: At least the frame is 1909-1913 military, as can be seen by the added hold open and replaced front sight, which was done in 1913, but the top makes it a bit confusing. 1909 is the only year not having the year stamped on top of the chamber, but then the proof marks should be on the left side of the chamber. Also most of the numbered parts should have the numbers "hidden" for that year. In 1910 the proof marks are moved to the right side, and the year stamped on top of the chamber. I am not sure about the serial numbers for 1910-1913 but as far as I know yours could fit in the 1909 ser# range. If you look at my album you can see how the markings are suposed to be on 1909 P08 http://forum.lugerforum.com/album.php?albumid=60 __________________ Regards: Ingvar

03-15-2009, 08:47 PM	#7
dtu2179 User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just by looking at it, it looks like it has been re-blued at some point a while ago. Although the dealer claimed that it had not. The dealer clearly misrepresented it to me, which is disheartening. I'm hoping to ballpark a year of manufacture just for my information.

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