Bundeswehr Lugers

John Winter · 05-31-2008, 10:53 AM

A former Green Beret was visiting and asked to see one of my Lugers. I obliged and he told me that he had fired one that was Bundeswehr property on one of their ranges during his last tour in Germany. Being skeptical, I contacted our son who was an Army officer stationed in Europe at the time and he said that he had fired a Bundeswehr Luger, as well. Neither of these gentlemen was able to enlighten me as to proof marks, but both were in agreement that the guns had blue finishes and four inch barrels. Does anyone have any information on this subject? Are these newly manufactured or are they reworks? Thanks.

Vlim · 05-31-2008, 03:55 PM

Hi,

The Bundeswehr (aka the Western-German army) were armed with the P1 (P38 renamed) as a side-arm, mainly.

I suspect that any P08's that are in the Bundeswehr arsenals at the moment came there after the unification of Eastern and Western Germany after 1989.

John Winter · 05-31-2008, 08:12 PM

Howdy,

The Volksheer is long gone. When the Bundeswehr came into existence in 1956, they were armed with American weapons. Too bad we didn't have a forum back then. The P.1 came later. That the Lugers possibly came from the old DDR would have been my guess also. Prior to unification in 1989, there are numerous photos of W. German honor guards wearing the traditional Stahlhelm and carrying 98K's, so they may have had a supply of Lugers as well. All DDR reworks I've observed have had their pattern of plastic grips. The Lugers to which I'm referring apparently had walnut and the finish was of higher quality. Still surprising. It would be amazing to see the German army celebrate 100 years with the P.08! A Luftwaffe officer and his wife will be visiing this summer, so I'll quiz him. Thanks for the input!

Vlim · 06-01-2008, 01:26 PM

Hi,

Of course, there's always the possibility that some guns survived in storage, reference collections or private hands and dripped back into the Bundeswehr that way.

A nice side note is that the Western-German army was basically without reference material (read: their own pre-1945 weapons) after the war. A Dutch collector and commercial manager of NWM, a DWM/IWK subsidiary in the Netherlands had built up a reference collection containing some 800+ firearms at the NWM factory.

Representatives of the Bundeswehr visited NWM around 1950 when the Western-German army was being reinstated and redeveloped. The Germans eventually bought the reference collection and it was to become the basis of the 'Wehrtechnische Studiensammlung' of the Bundeswehr in Koblenz.

John Winter · 06-01-2008, 02:39 PM

Thanks for some very useful information! Opinions abound on any forum, but academic data from reputable sources is always a breath of fresh air.

John Winter · 06-01-2008, 03:26 PM

Mr. van Vlimmeren,

Had to break for lunch, so please pardon the interruption. I don't recall having seen anyone wearing Bundeswehr gray prior to 1956, but as you say, it was obvious that a great deal of planning went into Germany's rearmament. The impetus for this closely following the currency reform of 1949 would be entirely logical. From what I recall, the only US weapon enthusiastically received was the M-1 carbine.

The unusually high number of seemingly unissued late-war P.38's available at American gun shows from the late 1950's, onward is an indication that on 8 May, there were still large numbers of these that went unissued and remained in depots. Could there have been stocks of Lugers, as well? Perhaps someone on the forum has direct knowledge of the numbers involved. Thanks again!

05-31-2008, 10:53 AM	#1
John Winter User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 55 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bundeswehr Lugers A former Green Beret was visiting and asked to see one of my Lugers. I obliged and he told me that he had fired one that was Bundeswehr property on one of their ranges during his last tour in Germany. Being skeptical, I contacted our son who was an Army officer stationed in Europe at the time and he said that he had fired a Bundeswehr Luger, as well. Neither of these gentlemen was able to enlighten me as to proof marks, but both were in agreement that the guns had blue finishes and four inch barrels. Does anyone have any information on this subject? Are these newly manufactured or are they reworks? Thanks. __________________ JRW

05-31-2008, 08:12 PM	#3
John Winter User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 55 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Howdy, The Volksheer is long gone. When the Bundeswehr came into existence in 1956, they were armed with American weapons. Too bad we didn't have a forum back then. The P.1 came later. That the Lugers possibly came from the old DDR would have been my guess also. Prior to unification in 1989, there are numerous photos of W. German honor guards wearing the traditional Stahlhelm and carrying 98K's, so they may have had a supply of Lugers as well. All DDR reworks I've observed have had their pattern of plastic grips. The Lugers to which I'm referring apparently had walnut and the finish was of higher quality. Still surprising. It would be amazing to see the German army celebrate 100 years with the P.08! A Luftwaffe officer and his wife will be visiing this summer, so I'll quiz him. Thanks for the input! __________________ JRW

06-01-2008, 02:39 PM	#5
John Winter User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 55 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for some very useful information! Opinions abound on any forum, but academic data from reputable sources is always a breath of fresh air. __________________ JRW

06-01-2008, 03:26 PM	#6
John Winter User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 55 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mr. van Vlimmeren, Had to break for lunch, so please pardon the interruption. I don't recall having seen anyone wearing Bundeswehr gray prior to 1956, but as you say, it was obvious that a great deal of planning went into Germany's rearmament. The impetus for this closely following the currency reform of 1949 would be entirely logical. From what I recall, the only US weapon enthusiastically received was the M-1 carbine. The unusually high number of seemingly unissued late-war P.38's available at American gun shows from the late 1950's, onward is an indication that on 8 May, there were still large numbers of these that went unissued and remained in depots. Could there have been stocks of Lugers, as well? Perhaps someone on the forum has direct knowledge of the numbers involved. Thanks again! __________________ JRW

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05-31-2008, 03:55 PM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, The Bundeswehr (aka the Western-German army) were armed with the P1 (P38 renamed) as a side-arm, mainly. I suspect that any P08's that are in the Bundeswehr arsenals at the moment came there after the unification of Eastern and Western Germany after 1989.

06-01-2008, 01:26 PM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, Of course, there's always the possibility that some guns survived in storage, reference collections or private hands and dripped back into the Bundeswehr that way. A nice side note is that the Western-German army was basically without reference material (read: their own pre-1945 weapons) after the war. A Dutch collector and commercial manager of NWM, a DWM/IWK subsidiary in the Netherlands had built up a reference collection containing some 800+ firearms at the NWM factory. Representatives of the Bundeswehr visited NWM around 1950 when the Western-German army was being reinstated and redeveloped. The Germans eventually bought the reference collection and it was to become the basis of the 'Wehrtechnische Studiensammlung' of the Bundeswehr in Koblenz.