Ivory grips on AE 1900

[drweiler]

Hi Ron,
Some time ago I said I'd get you a photo of these hand carved ivory grips on this AE 1900 s.n. 13729. They are identical pattern both panels with slight variation in carving, with leather spacers between grip screws and ivory. There are no maker marks. My father acquired it like this in 1939, in family since. Wonder if anyone has seen similar? The magazine is not original, being an Imperial marked Erfurt # 557 no suffix. Cheers and thanks, Don

[Ron Wood]

Don,

Nice! Whoever made those grips was no stranger to carving ivory. Very well done. The style would indicate that they probably are close to contemporary with the gun. Later ivory grips usually have either a germanic oak leaf pattern or oriental dragon motif (I have a set of dragon ivory grips stashed someplace if I can ever find them among all the little boxes I still haven't unpacked.

Thank you for remembering to post them. It is always a joy to see neat stuff.
Ron

[alvin]

Dragon.... 1900..... probably for Qing Emporer! Before 1911, no other one in China could legally use dragon of this style as decoration.

Or, post 1911 for a few warlords with emporer-to-be dreams? .... why 1900 type though, unlikely.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Gotta love the look and patina of old ivory. Really a beautiful material for pistol grips. Even ivory with no carvings on it is stunning.
Both of these grips are quite beautiful.

Jerry Burney

[Ron Wood]

Alvin,

Nice thought, but the dragon grips aren't for a 1900. They were on a WWII Mauser Luger in pretty tacky shape. I would guess they were made up for a GI. The workmanship is superior, far better than the gun they were on deserved. Fortunately the owner was willing to sell the grips without the gun for a fairly reasonable price. They really are the nicest ivory Luger grips I have encountered.

I am interested in your comment that a dragon of this style was only legal for an emperor. I have always wondered if the grips were Chinese or Japanese in origin. I saw a reference to the dragons being the "dragon of war (open mouth)" and the "dragon of peace (closed mouth)", but I know nothing beyond that, and I don't even know if that is accurate.

[alvin]

Ron --

Dragon was a traditional royal symbol in the East. Both Chinese and Japanese used Dragon symbols but with a difference -- the claw of Chinese Dragon has five fingers, and Japanese Dragon has three fingers.

Below is a Chinese Silver Coin of "34th YEAR OF KUANG HSU" (1908) which
shows a Chinese Dragon.... and a "wall" in a former royal park.... his mouth
is always open.

[Ron Wood]

Ah, so...verrry enlightening! My dragons have three toes...ergo, Japanese. That may support my assumption that the grips were made during the US post war occupation of Japan. The burning question that will never be answered is: How did a GI in post WWII Japan have a Luger with which to fit these grips?

[A.Mifsin]

Originally posted by Ron Wood
Ah, so...verrry enlightening! My dragons have three toes...ergo, Japanese. That may support my assumption that the grips were made during the US post war occupation of Japan. The burning question that will never be answered is: How did a GI in post WWII Japan have a Luger with which to fit these grips?

Maybe he was in Europe in 1944/45 were he took it as a trophy, then, afterwards he was stationed to Japan.
Alf.

[Ron Wood]

Alf,

That is probably the most likely scenario.

[Dwight Gruber]

In China, the five-toed dragon was symbolic of the Emperor, and could not be used by anyone else. Lesser officials got away with dragon decorations by portraying dragons with fewer toes.

I have a pair of smooth ivory grips for a P08 (cannot use them on my current 1906 shooting Luger, drat!), they are the most comfortable and inviting grips I have felt on any gun, ever.

--Dwight

[alvin]

Grip study becomes Dragon study. I bet ancient human being hundreds of thousands years ago witnessed a few types of dinosaurs. Here is a Japanese silver coin of 1887:

http://cgi.ebay.com/JAPAN-1887-SILVE...QQcmdZViewItem

[Ron Wood]

So, I am back to the uncertainty of Chinese or Japanese origin. Darned inscrutable orientals.

[Rod WMG]

Don, nice grips. I'm sort of picky about what I like and I like those.

[alvin]

I did a little study on Qing Dynasty Dragon on the web today. Dwight was right -- dragon could be used by lesser officials. Arch Duke type of position (sons, brothers or uncles of Emperor) could use five-toe dragon with "swiming-down" pose. Strictly speaking, if the number of toes are less than five, the creature is not called dragon anymore, it's named as "Python" (that's news to me), used by positions like Duke. Positions like governors, generals could not even use Python, they could only use crest like crane, peacock, lion, etc according to the hierarchy.

[ken d]

Unrelated to dragons but my favorite ivories. Fashioned from walrus
ivory by an old aleut after a chance encounter with an ET.
Regards Ken D

[ken d]

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