A 9x19 ammo question

alvin · 05-24-2008, 09:17 AM

I found a few rounds of old 9x19. Could you tell me something about it? who made it, when, and what's the meaning of the markings? or any info.... thanks!

P.S. sorry, the quality of the picture is not super:

Top is "8"
Bottom is "faa"
Left is "st+"
Right is "44"

Vlim · 05-24-2008, 09:28 AM

Hi Alvin,

Yes we can.

faa is the maker's mark: Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken, the Karlsruhe division (DWM).

8 is the lot number, 44 is the production year (1944).

St+ shows it is a steel case, loaded with the improved coarser powder.

So it's original WW2 ammunition, made by DWM for the German army.

The bullet is most likely painted black? This is the 'mE' bullet, the version with an iron core. The Germans stopped painting the bullet black in 1944, when the 'mE' became the standard round and the lead filled copper FMJ was dropped. Checking whether the bullet contains iron is easily done by holding a magnet to the tip. A copper/lead round is non-magnetic.

Alternatively, if the bullet is a dull grey with a black band around the base of the bullet (where it meets the case), it's the 'SE' variation, the bullet is then made of sintered iron.

These sectioned rounds show those variations, the one on the left is the Steel cased version with the coarse powder (St+), the one on the right is the steel cased version with the normal powder (St).

The left bullet is the mE ('mit Eisenkern', iron core) version, the one on the right is the massive SE ('Sintereisen', sintered iron) version.

This is a recent touch-up I did of a design drawing from one of the German munitions manufacturers Polte of Magdeburg.

I used a copy from Lewis Curtis (http://www.gigconceptsinc.com/RefInfo9mmP.html) as a basis.

alvin · 05-24-2008, 09:59 AM

Thanks a lot for the quick reply!

No wonder those ammo came with a DWM marked clip.

I just tried a magnet... yes, it's steel. The color of bullet, hard for me to tell, pictures below show pretty much accurate color in my eyes.

Vlim · 05-24-2008, 11:41 AM

Nice clip!

Not too common to find late-war German 9mm rounds on clips, may have been a later combination. Normally they were distributed without clips in 16-round cardboard boxes, enough to fill 2 magazines. The combination of clip and rounds can be explained (this is mere speculation on my part) by use in a 9mm Mauser C96.

I also have a boxed set of steel bullet copper washed 9mm rounds on loading strips that were produced by Sellier & Bellot shortly after WW2.

The German made bullets shown in your photo are copper washed which is in line with the 1944 date. Most 1944 dated bullets in my collection are copper washed rather than painted black.

05-24-2008, 09:17 AM	#1
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	A 9x19 ammo question I found a few rounds of old 9x19. Could you tell me something about it? who made it, when, and what's the meaning of the markings? or any info.... thanks! P.S. sorry, the quality of the picture is not super: Top is "8" Bottom is "faa" Left is "st+" Right is "44"

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05-24-2008, 09:28 AM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi Alvin, Yes we can. faa is the maker's mark: Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken, the Karlsruhe division (DWM). 8 is the lot number, 44 is the production year (1944). St+ shows it is a steel case, loaded with the improved coarser powder. So it's original WW2 ammunition, made by DWM for the German army. The bullet is most likely painted black? This is the 'mE' bullet, the version with an iron core. The Germans stopped painting the bullet black in 1944, when the 'mE' became the standard round and the lead filled copper FMJ was dropped. Checking whether the bullet contains iron is easily done by holding a magnet to the tip. A copper/lead round is non-magnetic. Alternatively, if the bullet is a dull grey with a black band around the base of the bullet (where it meets the case), it's the 'SE' variation, the bullet is then made of sintered iron. These sectioned rounds show those variations, the one on the left is the Steel cased version with the coarse powder (St+), the one on the right is the steel cased version with the normal powder (St). The left bullet is the mE ('mit Eisenkern', iron core) version, the one on the right is the massive SE ('Sintereisen', sintered iron) version. This is a recent touch-up I did of a design drawing from one of the German munitions manufacturers Polte of Magdeburg. I used a copy from Lewis Curtis (http://www.gigconceptsinc.com/RefInfo9mmP.html) as a basis.

05-24-2008, 09:59 AM	#3
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Thanks a lot for the quick reply! No wonder those ammo came with a DWM marked clip. I just tried a magnet... yes, it's steel. The color of bullet, hard for me to tell, pictures below show pretty much accurate color in my eyes.

05-24-2008, 11:41 AM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Nice clip! Not too common to find late-war German 9mm rounds on clips, may have been a later combination. Normally they were distributed without clips in 16-round cardboard boxes, enough to fill 2 magazines. The combination of clip and rounds can be explained (this is mere speculation on my part) by use in a 9mm Mauser C96. I also have a boxed set of steel bullet copper washed 9mm rounds on loading strips that were produced by Sellier & Bellot shortly after WW2. The German made bullets shown in your photo are copper washed which is in line with the 1944 date. Most 1944 dated bullets in my collection are copper washed rather than painted black.