WW2 SS Dagger

[NJG26Capricorn]

Just wanted to share a pic of this WW2 SS Dagger I have, sorry crappy digital cam i'll update with my daughters cam when she gets home-

It is in this beautiful leather case w/ brass screwed hinge ( but I dont know if this was made for display or came with it, has no marking on outer case) It has the original sheath and belt clip stamped with a fancy symbol and the letters DRGM.

The dagger is engraved with the words " Meine Ehre HeiÃ??t Treue"
I think translated means "My Honor is Loyalty" I stand corrected if wrong!

On the back side is engraved Rich.ABR.Herder- Solingen

If anyone has an Idea if this was Original or reproduced let me know, never had it looked at by a pro...

Thanks ,John

[Navy]

cap,

From my experience in collecting this stuff for 46 years-damn, am I that old??- if it is SS, presume it is fake until proven otherwise.

Tom A

[lugerholsterrepair]

Truer words you will not hear... excellent closeups will be necessary to determine if even the parts are authentic. Then you can try to determine if it's a put together or came that way originally. SS items are a minefield, daggers are high on the list .
If you really have a desire to educate yourself you can visit two Forums that specialize in this sort of thing. German Daggers and Wehermacht Awards. Either of these is a wealth of information on this fascinating subject but be prepared to spend many hours if not days reading about them from true experts in this field.
Jerry Burney

[NJG26Capricorn]

Thank you for your posts I will get my daughters cam and get some better photos- and will check out the German Daggers and Wehermacht Awards you mentioned.

Thanks, John

[lugerholsterrepair]

John,

http://www.germandaggers.com/

[NJG26Capricorn]

Better pics for ya while I search the other areas!!!!










thanks, John

[RylanBrissette]

The guys on the WAF can tell you, they really know their stuff. http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/

As someone mentioned it is a VERY good idea to double check with one of the 2 forums. Good luck!

[NJG26Capricorn]

I posted the pics on germandaggers.com forums - Had one reply so far!!

Skyline Drive replied - Everything looks correct and in pretty good shape. The leather hanger goes on the scabbard ring. Herder is one of the five most common SS EM33 dagger makers.

Looking at other pics and other info on thier site - this is most likely a real EM33 SS Dagger average values from $2500 to ????? depending on the dagger and if it belonged to a famous soldier.

WOW I had no idea this could be worth that much

Thanks for your replies, I will keep you updated once I know for sure the value of this dagger.

Thanks, John

[lugerholsterrepair]

John, You will never know who it belonged to. These were not numbered to an individual.
He could not have been very famous because famous SS Officers had a fancier model of dagger.
Your photo's do look like it's good. Not diffinitive as much better photo's are required to be absolutely certain.
Condition plays a big part too...
Good Luck!
Jerry Burney

[SIGP2101]

That piano hinge on the box looks awfully nova days to me, and out of context.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Joe, The box has nothing to do with the Dagger. It's just a post war thing someone made up to house it.
Jerry Burney

[NJG26Capricorn]

Yes I do understand this is a standard dagger- I may have typed wrong in the fact that They can be worth $2500 or higher ( I was not meaning this one is rare or may have belonged to someone important) I was just generally quoting they can be worth alot depending....

as far as the case - there are no marking or evidence it came with the dagger- It indeed was hand made and is very old- prolly as you stated was for display and storage purposes.

Some info I found on it...




" Introduced in 1933, this political dagger was awarded to all members of the SS. Although the standard dagger is quite common, it is a highly sought after collectible due to the notariety of the SS.




Manufacturers This dagger was manufactured by at least 14 firms in order of rarity (common to most rare): Kober, Shuttelhofer, Ed Gumbruch, Bertham Reinh, E.P. & S, Boker, Klass, Eickhorn, Herder, Gottlieb-Hammesfahr, Jacobs, Looper, WKC, Klittermann & Moog, and Puma. This order of rarity is an estimate derived from an analysis of old dealer sales lists. The possibility of other makers not listed here exists.


Construction Early daggers exhibit nickle silver fittings (identified by their dull, matte finish when allowed to age), a rust-blued or "anodized" scabbard that was often coated with a clear topcoat of laqueur. Later versions exhibit a painted scabbard and plated fittings. All vintages exhibit an ebony or a black-stained grip, a NAZI eagle (nickle silver on early models, aluminum on some later models), and a circular grip insert depicting silver SS runes. Blades are marked on the obverse with the SS motto "Meine Ehre HeiÃ??t Treue" which roughly translates "My Honor is my Loyalty."


Rarity- Common


Variations While many manufacturers produced this dagger type, there are very few standard variations that exist. One notable variation concerns the motto. Two manufacturers of this dagger pattern used an exclamation point after the motto on the obverse of the blade - Jacobs most often, and extremely rarely, Klittermann & Moog.



Warnings Many collectors and dealers erroneously call this dagger the "enlisted" model. This is not correct. It is simply the early model dagger before Himmler commissioned artist Paul Casberg to redesign the SS dagger (resulting in the Chained version). Of course, regulations proscribed when an SS man (officer or enlisted) was entitled to upgrade his dagger to the chained version. "


Thanks for your comments and replies , John

[StarOfTheWest]

Two tricks I have seen to determine authenticity are examining the blade inscription under magnification and checking centering of the motto on the blade.
The motto is supposed to be chemically *etched*, not engraved, any tool marks indicating engraving make it a forgery.
The OCD tendencies of the era will also show in the alignment of the motto.
The letters *must* be centered along the ridge of the blade center.
This is not an easy thing to do apparently, as the forgers have a hard time with this.
Compare where the "e"s line up to the center ridge, at both ends of the inscription.
Also note how well the eagle is fitted into the wood of the grip.
There should be no gaps at all, fit should be perfect.
Your pics are not close enough of the inscription to determine these things.
Because of the high dollar value on SS daggers, forgeries have been made even back in the 1960s.
Good luck!
I hope yours is authentic!

[tenbears]

Having owned SS swords and daggers I'm fairly comfortable in detecting a good one from a bad one. What I do stay completely away from is SS cloth, badges and awards. After being burned time and time again. Other than firearms. I have become weary of Nazi stuff to much of a mine field. And pretty much stay away from it.