Breechblock doesn't keep open after the last round fired

Claudio · 12-22-2007, 09:04 AM

Hi !

I Have a P08. 9mm 1917/20
When I shoot, it happen that the breechblock doesn't keep open after the last round fired.

Anyone have any idea how to troubleshoot this?

Thank you in advance.

Vlim · 12-22-2007, 09:55 AM

Hi,

The holdopen device is an L-shaped rod that is pushed upwards by the magazine follower button. It has a small leaf spring that enables it to be pushed down again.

A number of things can cause the holdopen function to work improperly, for example the type of ammunition used, the magazine, the holdopen itself, etc...

When firing normal military or police issue European 9mm rounds I find that the holdopen does not engage very often. With S&B 124 gr. it always does.

Claudio · 12-22-2007, 11:58 AM

Thank you for the explanation.

As you said the holdopen does not engage very often, I'm actually using 9MM Luger 115 Grain FMJ from Magtech so I will first change the ammunition and give a try.

LugerVern · 12-22-2007, 12:15 PM

1) Take the right grip off, insert your magazine and note the button on the mag.
It may be hitting on the frame, this is pretty common. On firing the gun this often shakes loose from the frame and allows the hold open to engage--so you in up with intermittent problem.

So check your button to see if its worn.

2) With the upper off, look closely at the top edge of the hold open, this does ware over time and may also be a problem area.

3) The hold open is rarely removed for cleaning but can become sluggish from dirt, oil ( WD-40) and rust. Try removing it and cleaning the hold open and the well it rides in.

4) Week mag springs can be an issue and complicate 1&2&3 above.

let us know how you make out.

Vern

Claudio · 12-22-2007, 01:15 PM

Vern, Thank you for your input

I forgot to mention that when I manipulate my Luger and I pull back the knobs with an empty mag the breechblock always keeps open, the problem only appears when firing.

But as you suggested, I have removed the right grip and check how the mechanism of the holdopen works.
The magazine knob pushed the holdopen upwards and is wasnÃ¢??t hitting the frame.
I have pushed the holdopen with my thumb and I noticed that it was a bit hard, so I removed it and cleared it with WD-40, After I reassemble it seems to me that the holdopen goes up a little more

So after the Christmas break I will try again on the shooting range but based on all your post I will focus now on
- the 115 Grain FMJ ammunition than I use today
- Week mag springs.

Claudio · 01-04-2008, 01:36 PM

hi. IÃ¢??m back with an update.
I had tested with 124 Gr yesterday. After the last round of first mag the breechblock kept open (So I say: ThatÃ¢?? is!) But on the next 3 mags the issue came back with an additional problem: Jamming

So as I have read that 124Gr. Is very common used by the members of the forum I will give a try with a new magazine.

Steinar · 01-04-2008, 01:55 PM

Claudio, did you use the same mag on the last three mags?
I have lugers where the hold open does not work with some magazines, but just fine with others..

LugerVern · 01-04-2008, 08:03 PM

Your gun may have a weak recoil spring, the 124 grain rounds maybe cycling the action too fast, try 115 grain and see if that helps.

I know this sounds unlikely but its not unheard of. You can try the paper trick at the rear of your gun, the toggle should not destroy the paper only dent it.

Sometimes the action impacts the rear of the frame so hard it springs back beating the hold open before it comes up, this can also cause jamming as the toggle slams into the rear of the bullet causing it to jump, you then end up with a stove pipe--does this sound like what is happening to your gun?

Vern

Claudio · 01-05-2008, 05:48 AM

I use an Italian MecGar magazine
when I use 115 grain I only have the problem with the breechblock, using 124 grain leand my gun to jam with that typical stove-pipe position.

Vern, for the 'paper trick' should I place the paper between the rear toggle tail and the rear of the reciver ?

Claudio · 02-05-2008, 04:01 PM

The problem were solved.

Following your recommendations & feedback I had solved the problem with my Imperial Luger. Thank you.

The two problems where solved.
On my Italian MecGar magazine, even if it was a new one, the springs were too weak. I solved the problem by using one of the Swiss Luger magazines with a more strong spring.

The problem of the breechblock was effectively due to the recoil spring, I replaced it by a new one and now I can use the 124 Grain ammo without any problems.

John Sabato · 02-06-2008, 08:12 AM

Claudio,

Member GT can fit your weak springed magazines with springs of his own manufacture... his work is the best.

12-22-2007, 09:04 AM	#1
Claudio User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Switzerland Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Breechblock doesn't keep open after the last round fired Hi ! I Have a P08. 9mm 1917/20 When I shoot, it happen that the breechblock doesn't keep open after the last round fired. Anyone have any idea how to troubleshoot this? Thank you in advance.

01-04-2008, 01:55 PM	#7
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Claudio, did you use the same mag on the last three mags? I have lugers where the hold open does not work with some magazines, but just fine with others.. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

02-06-2008, 08:12 AM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Claudio, Member GT can fit your weak springed magazines with springs of his own manufacture... his work is the best. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

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12-22-2007, 09:55 AM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, The holdopen device is an L-shaped rod that is pushed upwards by the magazine follower button. It has a small leaf spring that enables it to be pushed down again. A number of things can cause the holdopen function to work improperly, for example the type of ammunition used, the magazine, the holdopen itself, etc... When firing normal military or police issue European 9mm rounds I find that the holdopen does not engage very often. With S&B 124 gr. it always does.

12-22-2007, 11:58 AM	#3
Claudio User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Switzerland Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you for the explanation. As you said the holdopen does not engage very often, I'm actually using 9MM Luger 115 Grain FMJ from Magtech so I will first change the ammunition and give a try.

12-22-2007, 12:15 PM	#4
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	1) Take the right grip off, insert your magazine and note the button on the mag. It may be hitting on the frame, this is pretty common. On firing the gun this often shakes loose from the frame and allows the hold open to engage--so you in up with intermittent problem. So check your button to see if its worn. 2) With the upper off, look closely at the top edge of the hold open, this does ware over time and may also be a problem area. 3) The hold open is rarely removed for cleaning but can become sluggish from dirt, oil ( WD-40) and rust. Try removing it and cleaning the hold open and the well it rides in. 4) Week mag springs can be an issue and complicate 1&2&3 above. let us know how you make out. Vern

12-22-2007, 01:15 PM	#5
Claudio User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Switzerland Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Vern, Thank you for your input I forgot to mention that when I manipulate my Luger and I pull back the knobs with an empty mag the breechblock always keeps open, the problem only appears when firing. But as you suggested, I have removed the right grip and check how the mechanism of the holdopen works. The magazine knob pushed the holdopen upwards and is wasnÃ¢??t hitting the frame. I have pushed the holdopen with my thumb and I noticed that it was a bit hard, so I removed it and cleared it with WD-40, After I reassemble it seems to me that the holdopen goes up a little more So after the Christmas break I will try again on the shooting range but based on all your post I will focus now on - the 115 Grain FMJ ammunition than I use today - Week mag springs.

01-04-2008, 01:36 PM	#6
Claudio User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Switzerland Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	hi. IÃ¢??m back with an update. I had tested with 124 Gr yesterday. After the last round of first mag the breechblock kept open (So I say: ThatÃ¢?? is!) But on the next 3 mags the issue came back with an additional problem: Jamming So as I have read that 124Gr. Is very common used by the members of the forum I will give a try with a new magazine.

01-04-2008, 08:03 PM	#8
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Your gun may have a weak recoil spring, the 124 grain rounds maybe cycling the action too fast, try 115 grain and see if that helps. I know this sounds unlikely but its not unheard of. You can try the paper trick at the rear of your gun, the toggle should not destroy the paper only dent it. Sometimes the action impacts the rear of the frame so hard it springs back beating the hold open before it comes up, this can also cause jamming as the toggle slams into the rear of the bullet causing it to jump, you then end up with a stove pipe--does this sound like what is happening to your gun? Vern

01-05-2008, 05:48 AM	#9
Claudio User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Switzerland Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I use an Italian MecGar magazine when I use 115 grain I only have the problem with the breechblock, using 124 grain leand my gun to jam with that typical stove-pipe position. Vern, for the 'paper trick' should I place the paper between the rear toggle tail and the rear of the reciver ?

02-05-2008, 04:01 PM	#10
Claudio User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Switzerland Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The problem were solved. Following your recommendations & feedback I had solved the problem with my Imperial Luger. Thank you. The two problems where solved. On my Italian MecGar magazine, even if it was a new one, the springs were too weak. I solved the problem by using one of the Swiss Luger magazines with a more strong spring. The problem of the breechblock was effectively due to the recoil spring, I replaced it by a new one and now I can use the 124 Grain ammo without any problems.