1918 Erfurt double date police

Lugers down under · 07-08-2007, 03:27 AM

Hello guys,
In my never ending search for interesting Lugers here down under. yesterday I found (aquired) an interesting 1918 Erfurt double date (1920) which is obviously a rework and has the police sear safety bar fitted.
It is all matching numbers including the magazine which is a Hanel Schmeisser patent mag?????
It has a holster with a spare mag and tool (WW1 proof) and a spare mag which is also interesting insomuch that it is an early nickel plated mag with a wooden base which is numbered 2714 in the early large number style with the numbers running length-wise along the base and on the front base face has a crown/M stamp but no other stamps.
The mag does NOT have concentric circles which I would have expected if it had been a Navy mag.
The holster is stamped L.Z.A over a large winged eagle with a little crown on it's head which is turned to the left and the eagle's claws are gripping something that looks like a branch or a rifle. The eagle is about a half inch wide.
Below that is the letters "H.Berlin."
Unfortunatly, I am away from my home and my books so I cannot identify any of the marks.
The front gripstap on the Luger looks like it once had a unit mark which has been removed but the reflections of the original stamps are evident on the inside of the mag well.
I would be interested in what you have to offer.
I will try and post some photos.
Kind wishes,
Murray

Heinz · 07-08-2007, 06:51 AM

Murray, nice find. The sear safety and Haenel Schmeisser magazine are not uncommon in Imperial P08s reissued to the police. My guess is this means the pistol saw use in the early Nazi era. Gortz and Bryans has information on the H-S magazine order for the Police dated September 1935. The magazines were ordered in parts with order ranging from 3000 followers to 10000 springs. Apparently they were salvaging what they could.

LZA is a leather goods warehouse for the Imperial military "Lederzug Ampt" I think. The H. Berlin indicates the Warehouse was in Berlin. The Manufacturers marks are probably elsewhere on the Holster.

Heinz · 07-08-2007, 06:53 AM

Murray from my 1915 Police reissue

Heinz · 07-08-2007, 06:55 AM

And from my 1918 holster on the center back

Lugerdoc · 07-08-2007, 08:41 AM

Murry, I concur with Heinz's comments above. The 1920 marking (usually above) the 1918 year of production, indicates that this was one of the 100K small arms allowed not destroyed under the Versailles tready, for use by the Weimar military. TH

MFC · 07-09-2007, 11:44 PM

IIRC some of the first issuied navy mags. did not have concentric circles.
Mike C.

Lugers down under · 07-10-2007, 03:12 AM

Thanks a million guys,
Your views reinforce what I concluded about this gun.
The holster and spare mag may be a red herring but the spare mag is really interesting.
I thought that the spare mag may have been a very early naval mag as i have a number of similar old mags with the large letters in the same format.
My 1906 DWM and 1911 Erfurt both have these early style mags.
I am rather pleased with the purchase.
Many thanks
Murray

07-08-2007, 03:27 AM	#1
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	1918 Erfurt double date police Hello guys, In my never ending search for interesting Lugers here down under. yesterday I found (aquired) an interesting 1918 Erfurt double date (1920) which is obviously a rework and has the police sear safety bar fitted. It is all matching numbers including the magazine which is a Hanel Schmeisser patent mag????? It has a holster with a spare mag and tool (WW1 proof) and a spare mag which is also interesting insomuch that it is an early nickel plated mag with a wooden base which is numbered 2714 in the early large number style with the numbers running length-wise along the base and on the front base face has a crown/M stamp but no other stamps. The mag does NOT have concentric circles which I would have expected if it had been a Navy mag. The holster is stamped L.Z.A over a large winged eagle with a little crown on it's head which is turned to the left and the eagle's claws are gripping something that looks like a branch or a rifle. The eagle is about a half inch wide. Below that is the letters "H.Berlin." Unfortunatly, I am away from my home and my books so I cannot identify any of the marks. The front gripstap on the Luger looks like it once had a unit mark which has been removed but the reflections of the original stamps are evident on the inside of the mag well. I would be interested in what you have to offer. I will try and post some photos. Kind wishes, Murray __________________ Lugers down under

07-08-2007, 06:53 AM	#3
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 411 Times in 180 Posts	Murray from my 1915 Police reissue Attached Images

07-08-2007, 06:55 AM	#4
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 411 Times in 180 Posts	And from my 1918 holster on the center back Attached Thumbnails

07-08-2007, 08:41 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Murry, I concur with Heinz's comments above. The 1920 marking (usually above) the 1918 year of production, indicates that this was one of the 100K small arms allowed not destroyed under the Versailles tready, for use by the Weimar military. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-09-2007, 11:44 PM	#6
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	IIRC some of the first issuied navy mags. did not have concentric circles. Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

07-08-2007, 06:51 AM	#2
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 411 Times in 180 Posts	Murray, nice find. The sear safety and Haenel Schmeisser magazine are not uncommon in Imperial P08s reissued to the police. My guess is this means the pistol saw use in the early Nazi era. Gortz and Bryans has information on the H-S magazine order for the Police dated September 1935. The magazines were ordered in parts with order ranging from 3000 followers to 10000 springs. Apparently they were salvaging what they could. LZA is a leather goods warehouse for the Imperial military "Lederzug Ampt" I think. The H. Berlin indicates the Warehouse was in Berlin. The Manufacturers marks are probably elsewhere on the Holster.

07-10-2007, 03:12 AM	#7
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks a million guys, Your views reinforce what I concluded about this gun. The holster and spare mag may be a red herring but the spare mag is really interesting. I thought that the spare mag may have been a very early naval mag as i have a number of similar old mags with the large letters in the same format. My 1906 DWM and 1911 Erfurt both have these early style mags. I am rather pleased with the purchase. Many thanks Murray __________________ Lugers down under

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