LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > Luger Discussion Forums > New Collectors Forum

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 04-12-2007, 08:56 AM   #1
waffen
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Lessons Learned and Applied

(Note to readers â?? I've also posted this on luger.gunboards.com, since I spent a lot of time there too.)



I never believed that a gun could be seductive.

Over the years I've accumulated a number of firearms, but I can't say I ever really searched for any of them. They came to me more or less on their own, sometimes because I'm the only one left in our family who still understands and appreciates well-made weapons and takes pride in owning and using them responsibly. Hunting and shooting skills are inseparable, and I am at heart a hunter. I've always viewed firearms as tools. Never "just tools"; I hate that phrase, because I think you can learn a lot about a man by carefully observing what tools he carries and how he treats them. I even have a rifle with a name; Terminus Est, a well-worn .30-06 that I've carried on many a hunt across the bluffs and valleys of Sauk County and has never missed a Wisconsin whitetail. But again, firearms are tools. Open my gun safe and one of the first things you'll notice is that there's no plastic in it; just lines of poetry written in black walnut and milled steel, with a bit of brass and hand-tooled leather here and there. And that says something about me.

However, my attitude started to change several months back when I happened to be watching the History Channel and saw "Tales of the Gun: The Luger". Like most people I could probably recognize a Luger since I was about six years old. I clearly remember at least one toy cap pistol that my folks told me was a Luger, and neither of them ever owned a gun. But I never really thought about why Lugers are so recognizable, or sought after by collectors, or why they occupy such an important place in the history of firearms development. "Tales of the Gun" answered these questions and also interviewed notable people in the Luger-collecting community like Fred Datig, Charles Kenyon Jr., and Ralph Shattuck. Controversial or not, these gentlemen are great story-tellers. By the end of the program I was hooked.

I thought hard about what kind of Luger I wanted and decided on a WWII piece. Grand-dad and my great uncles all served in the War, some in the European Theater and others in the Pacific. The survivors brought back some souvenirs that I still have; a couple of Mauser K98 ammo pouches dated 1939 and 1940 â?¦ a nice K98 bayonet, frog, and sheath (nonmatching, unfortunately) â?¦ a "universal" German cleaning kit dated 1937 and stamped "G. Appel" with a stick eagle-over-Na167, and a few other odds and ends. Grand-dad apparently had some time on his hands out there in the PTO, because he fashioned a beautiful model of a P-38 Lightning fighter plane entirely out of .50 caliber machine gun shell cases and bullets (Grand-dad was a machinist by trade). But the ETO veterans in our family often wished they'd brought back a Luger somehow.
waffen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 08:56 AM   #2
waffen
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I knew I needed more information and like thousands of others I found my way to this website. The answers were (and are) here, written by many good, experienced, and patient people who (apparently) don't mind us asking the same questions over and over and over again (well, not too much anyway!). I also lucked into one of the last copies of Third Reich Lugers available directly from author Jan C. Still, who has to be one of the nicest people on the planet. So I guess Jan is responsible for what happened next. (My wife says that "blame" isn't too strong a word! But my life was so screwed up before I e-mailed Mr. Still that he really can't be blamed for anything.) After a lot of reading and reflection I decided that my best chance of finding an affordable, functional WWII Luger in good original condition would be to search for a slightly nonmatching example of one of the most common variations. The "boosted" and/or "reblued" pistols foisted on the public as "rare & desirable originals" are usually hyped by the seller and claim to be much more than they really are. Either that or Hermann Goering owned 4.8 million SS-marked Lugers.

Although I've had a good experience with Auction Arms on the internet, I visited our one truly interesting local gun shop first. These folks have been in business at the same location for more than twenty years, have two experienced gunsmiths on the premises most days, and they deal in an eclectic array of used firearms that go all the way back to the Civil War period (and further; the oldest piece I've seen there was a wheel-lock pistol from the 16th century). All firearms are inspected by a gunsmith before they are resold, and if the piece isn't deemed safe for shooting they don't sell it at the shop. And there, as luck would have it, tucked away in a dark corner at the bottom of the "Used Hand Guns" display case was the unmistakable outline of a Luger.

It turned out to be a plain 1940 42 code; all-matching except for the locking bolt and the magazine, (even then I knew that a nickel-plated magazine with a wood bottom wasn't right for this Luger). At that point I made a serious mistake; I picked up and held a Luger for the first time. I have several hand guns that I've owned and shot regularly for years. Frankly, none of them gave me the same electric feeling as the Luger. It was as if the pistol attached itself to me as a natural extension of my right arm/hand/trigger finger. How could I possibly just put it down and walk away? Well, I managed. Barely. And a week or so and a couple of phone conversations later I returned. This time I left a good many hundreds of dollars poorer and very, very happy;



waffen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 08:57 AM   #3
waffen
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

One thing I'd like to impress upon readers who are new to Lugers; acquiring your first pistol doesn't cure the itch at all. It's just the beginning of a long and happy obsession. Even if, like me, you are resolved to have just one Luger, you will soon find yourself searching the world for a correct holster, magazines, loading tool, .22-cal conversion kit, etc. The list of possible accessories seems endless.

Again, the experienced people on this site have already provided much of the information you need before you buy. Just put on a pot of coffee, lock the door to your study for a couple of hours and invest some time in reading. Indeed, I can't think of a more pleasant occupation while a bleak Wisconsin winter hammers away at the shutters and shingles. (Well, to be truthful I guess there are a few more pleasant activities, which explains our unusually high August-through-October birth rate here in the Badger State).

Let's start with the holster. Authenticity was important to me, so I read nearly every word that Jerry Burney has written about how to distinguish reproduction holsters from the originals. Ron Wood was also a big help to me in this area. Unfortunately my experience was that quality, original Luger holsters dated 1939 or 1940 that I found for auction on e-bay or for sale through other on-line vendors were priced much higher than the "around two hundred dollars" figure often bandied about on this site. However, when this holster came up for sale I was in a position to buy it, and did;



What I learned from the experienced collectors here is to look carefully at the stitching on the back of the holster;



Note that the top and middle rows of stitching extend right across the magazine pouch to the edge, and that the belt loops are mounted at an angle rather than straight across. The stitching at the bottom of the lower belt loop extends a little bit in order to attach the bottom part of the pull strap to the inside of the holster. In this close-up of the Waffenampt you can distinguish the original linen thread;



I did check Third Reich Lugers to confirm the maker's mark and code before I bought the holster, and though I paid more than $200 it was still quite a bargain compared to other 1939 and 1940-dated holsters I've seen for sale in recent months, especially in this condition. I admit that I was nervous about not being able to do the "sniff test", but happily all that arrived in the mail was a hunk of musty old leather with a hint of long-ago cigarette smoke.
waffen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 08:58 AM   #4
waffen
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

The next item on my Luger to-do list was to find two magazines that were as close as possible to what was originally issued with the gun. Tom Heller advised me that the wood-bottomed magazine that came with my Luger was probably from the Weimar period, and Don Hallock's writings were a revelation in this area of Luger expertise. In fact, for my own use I cleaned up and edited an essay that Don wrote on the subject back in 2004. Don didn't really give the piece a title, but I think that A Standard System for Describing Mauser Military [MM] Luger Magazines, 1934-45 works nicely. Here are the closest magazines I could find in a search that lasted several months. (I know, I know â?? some of you have been searching years, even decades for a magazine that matches your Luger's serial number. Blessed are those who stubbornly defy the laws of probability.);



A 1940 42 code Luger in the b-block could have been issued with either the rolled, blued, solid aluminum-based SE/655 magazines (2-MM-SE5 using Don's system) or the extruded type, blued, concave pinned aluminum-base, 122 over SE/37 magazines (3-MM-122 in Don's system). I decided to go with the latter type, which some members here have found to function more reliably than the earlier design. While I couldn't find anything in the b-block, an a-block and a c-block (the c-block mag marked as a spare) weren't too bad, especially in this condition.

About this time I finished and fit a set of replacement grips to the Luger so as not to put more wear on the originals (which are numbered to the gun and stamped SE/655). Don't worry Hugh; the originals are stored carefully away in a climate-controlled space that's not in direct sunlight!

One final detail involved the loading tool;



The tool is stamped SE/655, but it's a light strike that's very hard to see in a photograph without a touch of white paint. It surprised me that there are so many faked and reproduction loading tools being sold as originals. Ed Tinker's writing on how to spot the originals from the repros was extremely helpful here, but, as Ed himself has said, "It takes time and looking at a lot of pictures and actual tools to get a feel for what is good and what isn't." Since I don't know anyone else who owns a Luger, much less a collection of original and repro loading tools that I could examine, I decided to go with a reputable dealer for this item. Bob Simpson at Collectors Firearms/Simpson Ltd. was very patient with me when I phoned, and he took care of my small mail-order as if it was the most important sale he made that day. As with the holster, I admit that as soon as the loading tool arrived in the mail I immediately took it down to my basement shop and measured the thickness with a vernier caliper. The loading tool came out a winner; 2.5mm in thickness at all points.

So here's my "rig", carefully assembled with the combined help and advice of most of the moderators and experienced people here whether they knew it or not;



And yes, I have taken my Luger to the range, (with a couple of trusty Walmart Winchester "white boxes" of 9mm ammo, 115 gr. FMJ), and it is an absolute joy to shoot. In fact, I have yet to experience a single stove-pipe jam, failure-to-feed, or failure-to-eject. I've also completely disassembled, cleaned, lubricated, and reassembled the pistol several times, and every time I am impressed by the quality of the workmanship and the close tolerances of the machining. Somebody here whose name I can't recall once referred to his Luger as "the Queen of my collection." I agree.
waffen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 08:58 AM   #5
waffen
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I know that at times there are disputes that arise on this site. That kind of thing will happen from time to time in any family or community, and I'm sure there are days when the moderators and patrons wonder if time spent here is really worth it, and does anybody really care? I offer this essay as grateful proof that the (mostly silent) majority of people who view this site hold the moderators, patrons, and experienced collectors in the highest respect. What you do and say here matters, a lot, especially to folks like me. I'll never be a Luger collector, but you have helped insure that I will always be a Luger enthusiast.

So, to George Anderson, Tom A., Randy Besseler, Jerry Burney, Pete Ebbink, Dwight Gruber, Tom Heller, "Morgan Kane", Frank Manders, John Sabato, Ron Smith, Jan C. Still, Ed Tinker, Ron Wood, and many others,

Thank you!



- Kevin Searock
waffen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 09:17 AM   #6
Lugerdoc
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Lugerdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302
Posts: 5,089
Thanks: 6
Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts
Default

Kevin, It's a joy to assist a new convert and share in your enthusiasum. TH
__________________
Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302
Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net
Lugerdoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 09:17 AM   #7
Imperial Arms
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Malta, EU
Posts: 579
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Hello Kevin,

Based on the amount of text you wrote on your story and description, you are definitely 'hooked'! The best sentence you used above was "I never believed that a gun could be seductive" - neither did I! You make it sound like the gun induced and came after you in a romantic way! Believe it or not, the gun has power which can effect you in the most unexpected way!

I enjoyed your writing/story and welcome to the hobby.

Cheers,
Albert
Imperial Arms is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 10:01 AM   #8
Ron Smith
User
 
Ron Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Orygun
Posts: 4,243
Thanks: 118
Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts
Default

Kevin,

Congratulations! I will reaffirm Tom's statement. I am happy to have played some small part in your growing addiction.

A very nice rig...

Ron
__________________
I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one.


What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...
Ron Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 01:25 PM   #9
Dwight Gruber
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,908
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts
Default

Kevin,

Very eloquent, thanks for taking the time to tell the story and show us the pictures. I'm glad to know that my own enthusiasm--and that of others here--continues to be shared and expanded to new Luger owners such as yourself.

--Dwight
Dwight Gruber is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 02:23 PM   #10
HerbZ
User
 
HerbZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 128
Thanks: 20
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default

A well written how-to-do-it-right on putting together a Luger rig that's both a shooter and a collectible. And your photography is very good too! There's got to be a print publication that would publish this.
__________________
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." Mark Twain
HerbZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 02:25 PM   #11
Navy
RIP
 
Navy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia
Posts: 2,482
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts
Default

I believe that this is what the Forum is all about.

Tom A
Navy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 04:26 PM   #12
davidkachel
User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 784
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Well put.
Your first Luger will take your breath away.
The second Luger has to be purchased in order to get you breathing again.
__________________
A heroin habit would be cheaper.
davidkachel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 07:22 PM   #13
hqbmw
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 228
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Teach, Learn, and share Knowledge. This is the only Forum that subscribes to all 3! What a fun sport in which we all participate.

Jack
__________________
Jack Hiles
Mesa AZ
hqbmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 08:20 PM   #14
lugerholsterrepair
Moderator
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
lugerholsterrepair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Arizona/Colorado
Posts: 7,775
Thanks: 4,995
Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts
Default

Kevin, We often counsel beginning collectors on this site and others I frequent to "do their homework" or to "read a couple of books" This is as fine an example of this advice being put to work as I have seen lately. Good Job! Nice photography and a pleasing discription. Jerry Burney
__________________
Jerry Burney
11491 S. Guadalupe Drive

Yuma AZ 85367-6182


lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net

928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round
719 207-3331 (cell)


"For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."
lugerholsterrepair is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 08:27 PM   #15
John D.
Administrator
& Site Owner
LugerForum
Patron
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: A Little NE of Somewhere...
Posts: 2,651
Thanks: 477
Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts
Default

Stunning pictures and outstanding post, Kevin!!

Yes - I'd say you are now addicted

Congratulations - and a tremendous start to a life-long addiction!!!

John D.
John D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2007, 09:27 PM   #16
RockinWR
User
 
RockinWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: D/FW, Tx
Posts: 279
Thanks: 109
Thanked 31 Times in 16 Posts
Default

Kevin,
* What a nice, crispy mating example.
* I sense the Luger dieties are pleased. May they dispense THE original salt blued "80" marked takedown lever and THE 2 matching mags as a reward for your strict adherence in preserving their P.08 history.
* Checking under your pillow each morning is allowed. Range plinking is encouraged. Breathing is not optional.
* Love those clear pics too. Thanks for sharing your well written story.
Respectfully,
Bob
RockinWR is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-13-2007, 03:46 PM   #17
John Sabato
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
John Sabato's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The Capital of the Free World
Posts: 10,156
Thanks: 3,003
Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts
Default

Let me add my personal welcome to the Luger enthusiast fraternity... Nice photos and great words... you are the kind of new member that makes efforts expended on this forum by the moderators and expert members worth it.

Enjoy!
__________________
regards, -John S

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL and are endowed by their Creator with certain UNALIENABLE rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."
John Sabato is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-13-2007, 04:23 PM   #18
Edward Tinker
Super Moderator
Eternal Lifer
LugerForum
Patron
 
Edward Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North of Spokane, WA
Posts: 15,966
Thanks: 2,066
Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts
Default

waffen, excellent, just excellent. I "strive" for finding the elusive matching magazine (it does happen ) but an "era" magazine is almost as good for a collection.


Well done


ed
__________________
Edward Tinker
************
Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers
Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

Edward Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-14-2007, 11:02 AM   #19
waffen
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Thanks to all for your comments and feedback! I was hoping you'd enjoy the essay. Here's one last look at the Luger, this time with it's original grips;



Good hunting!



- Kevin Searock
waffen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-14-2007, 11:38 AM   #20
waltherguy
User
 
waltherguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 201
Thanks: 5
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

That last pic says it all Kevin.. Great pics! & great post! As John said, welcome to a life-long addiction!
__________________
"In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine"
-Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
waltherguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2025, Lugerforum.com