1906 AE with no C/N proofs

MFC · 12-04-2006, 11:19 PM

Hello all,
Should a 1906 American Eagle have Crown/N proof marks on it? I've been watching one on gunbroker.com for quite a while. No one ever bids on it. Low price compared to other .30 cal. Eagles up for bid, $1800. I emailed the seller
(h shop) and he said no C/N proofs. It is stamped Germany on the front of the frame. When did DWM start to put C/N proofs on commercial lugers?
Thanks,
Mike C.

Steve Richards · 12-05-2006, 01:45 AM

I cannot answer your question except to tell you that mine is completly devoid of proof marks. It has Germany in the same location.

Steve

Dwight Gruber · 12-05-2006, 02:45 AM

Mike,

The proof in use by the proof house responsible for commercial proofing of DWM pistols was the crown/B, c/U, c/B proof set. The crown/N commercial proof was instituted in 1910, and in use by 1911.

The US has no national proof laws. GERMANY marked 1906 Lugers exported to the US before 1911 were sometimes c/BUG proofed and sometimes not, in apparently random application. After 1911 all the 1906 Lugers for which I have the report were c/N proofed.

If you could supply the serial number for this gun it should be possible to say whether it was in the c/BUG or c/N range, and thus whether or not the absence of a proof is appropriate.

--Dwight

Pete Ebbink · 12-05-2006, 11:13 AM

Link to gun on G-B. Looks like the number might be # 16330 (???)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=61561543

Dwight Gruber · 12-05-2006, 12:19 PM

These are the folks who blank out the first digit of the serial number on their photographs. Unless we get a report of a response from them to the direct question of the serial number we are not going to be able to determine which proof is appropriate.

16330 would be in the model 1900 series.

--Dwight

Pete Ebbink · 12-05-2006, 12:58 PM

You're right...maybe # 36330 (???).

A call would be best...if the shop will give out the info.

Dwight Gruber · 12-05-2006, 01:53 PM

IF it is 36330, it is in the middle of a batch of 1906AE without proofs.

--Dwight

MFC · 12-06-2006, 12:59 AM

Thanks guys,
If it is 36330, what else do you think about the gun? Does it look untouched by WaffenbrikUSA or what? I've seen others in worse shape with prices a lot higher.
I also asked him about the flat sided mag. bottom and his reply was
"I have no idea".
Mike C.

Dwight Gruber · 12-06-2006, 06:14 AM

The photos make the gun look pretty good. I would want to see a closeup photo of the lower polished safety area before I said any more. Also, nothing more should be inferred on the presumption that this is the serial number. It is necessary to get the actual number from the seller.

The flat-sided mag has been made that way by a previous owner and reduces its value to a nominal figure.

--Dwight

MFC · 12-08-2006, 09:21 PM

I emailed him and it is S#36330. Any more thoughts about the gun? What about the price if it is correct; no force match,reblue,etc.?
Thanks,
Mike C.

Dwight Gruber · 12-09-2006, 01:30 AM

I see that the auction has closed with no bids and relisted.

If the gun is all proper with original finish the starting price was moderate.

Since we are dealing with photographic examination here, a very closeup, sharp picture of the polished safety area is crucial.

--Dwight
--Dwight

MFC · 12-09-2006, 02:00 AM

Thanks Dwight,
I've watched it close with no bids and relisted several times. I thought maybe there was something obvious that I was missing. Then I noticed no proofs, but that wasn't it . Unless others were like me and thought that it should have proofs. Maybe it's just because it's a .30 cal.
BTW why was the safety area polished on the older Lugers?
Mike C.

12-04-2006, 11:19 PM	#1
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	1906 AE with no C/N proofs Hello all, Should a 1906 American Eagle have Crown/N proof marks on it? I've been watching one on gunbroker.com for quite a while. No one ever bids on it. Low price compared to other .30 cal. Eagles up for bid, $1800. I emailed the seller (h shop) and he said no C/N proofs. It is stamped Germany on the front of the frame. When did DWM start to put C/N proofs on commercial lugers? Thanks, Mike C.

12-06-2006, 12:59 AM	#8
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Thanks guys, If it is 36330, what else do you think about the gun? Does it look untouched by WaffenbrikUSA or what? I've seen others in worse shape with prices a lot higher. I also asked him about the flat sided mag. bottom and his reply was "I have no idea". Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

12-08-2006, 09:21 PM	#10
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	I emailed him and it is S#36330. Any more thoughts about the gun? What about the price if it is correct; no force match,reblue,etc.? Thanks, Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

12-09-2006, 02:00 AM	#12
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Thanks Dwight, I've watched it close with no bids and relisted several times. I thought maybe there was something obvious that I was missing. Then I noticed no proofs, but that wasn't it . Unless others were like me and thought that it should have proofs. Maybe it's just because it's a .30 cal. BTW why was the safety area polished on the older Lugers? Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

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12-05-2006, 01:45 AM	#2
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I cannot answer your question except to tell you that mine is completly devoid of proof marks. It has Germany in the same location. Steve

12-05-2006, 02:45 AM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Mike, The proof in use by the proof house responsible for commercial proofing of DWM pistols was the crown/B, c/U, c/B proof set. The crown/N commercial proof was instituted in 1910, and in use by 1911. The US has no national proof laws. GERMANY marked 1906 Lugers exported to the US before 1911 were sometimes c/BUG proofed and sometimes not, in apparently random application. After 1911 all the 1906 Lugers for which I have the report were c/N proofed. If you could supply the serial number for this gun it should be possible to say whether it was in the c/BUG or c/N range, and thus whether or not the absence of a proof is appropriate. --Dwight

12-05-2006, 11:13 AM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Link to gun on G-B. Looks like the number might be # 16330 (???) http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=61561543

12-05-2006, 12:19 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	These are the folks who blank out the first digit of the serial number on their photographs. Unless we get a report of a response from them to the direct question of the serial number we are not going to be able to determine which proof is appropriate. 16330 would be in the model 1900 series. --Dwight

12-05-2006, 12:58 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	You're right...maybe # 36330 (???). A call would be best...if the shop will give out the info.

12-05-2006, 01:53 PM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	IF it is 36330, it is in the middle of a batch of 1906AE without proofs. --Dwight

12-06-2006, 06:14 AM	#9
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	The photos make the gun look pretty good. I would want to see a closeup photo of the lower polished safety area before I said any more. Also, nothing more should be inferred on the presumption that this is the serial number. It is necessary to get the actual number from the seller. The flat-sided mag has been made that way by a previous owner and reduces its value to a nominal figure. --Dwight

12-09-2006, 01:30 AM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	I see that the auction has closed with no bids and relisted. If the gun is all proper with original finish the starting price was moderate. Since we are dealing with photographic examination here, a very closeup, sharp picture of the polished safety area is crucial. --Dwight --Dwight