1916 DWM Luger Markings

[Michael]

I am considering buying a 1916 DWM Luger. Everything looks good as far as the matching numbers and minimal wear. One concern I have is with two markings I have never seen before. I can't find any reference to them in my books. One is stamped on the frame and it reads L.O.120. The other is on the right side of the receiver and it reads in real fine print "Not English Made".


Has anyone seen these kind of marks before? I was hoping for a nice clean WWI Luger but these marks make me think that this speciman was tinkered with. This is a private purchase and the owner doesn't have any answers.


Thanks for the help.


Michael

[Johnny Peppers]

Not sure about the first marking, but the NOT ENGLISH MAKE is a British commercial proof required under the British Proof Act of 1925-1955. These marks were applied by both the London Proof House and the Birmingham Proof House to any firearm sold commercially in England that was not English make. There should be other British proofs on the pistol including a nitro proof on the barrel

[Michael]

Thanks for the information on why the one mark is stamped on the gun. There were a lot of other markings on the barrel but I didn't look at them that close upon my first inspection of the piece. I just assumed they were German proof marks.


Does this marking mean the gun was sold by a British dealer sometime after the war? Do you think it was reworked by the British or just stamped for resale? And does it affect the value or the collectability of the gun?


I guess I am wondering if I should pass this one up or not.

Thanks again for your help.

[Rick K]

If you mean to collect Lugers, I would say buy it for it's uniqueness. If you are only going to own one Luger then decide what you want and go for it. I personally like all of them! my 2 cents worth.

[Johnny Peppers]

Quite a few surplus firearms were sold by British arms dealers, and as stated previously, no matter where the weapon originated if it came back through England for sale it was proofed.

[Kyrie]

Ahem


Itâ??s also been stated (by yours truly [friendly smile]) that firearms not made in England that only transit England to some other destination are not subject to English Proof Law, and would not be marked per English Law. Also, military firearms made in a second country and used in England by UK armed forces are not subject to English Proof Laws, if they have already been proofed in accordance with the second countryâ??s Proof Laws, and reciprocity exists between England and the second country.


Please donâ??t get me wrong here - Itâ??s not my intent to resurrect an old disagreement. Only letting folks know there is a difference of opinion on the subject


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Johnny Peppers]

Any foreign weapon sold commercially in England will be proofed under British proof law. The proof has nothing to do with whether the weapon is military or civilian, as the British proofs are commercial proofs. The US Lend-Lease weapons sent to England that were released by the British Government for commercial sale were required by British law to be proofed before they could be sold. M1 Rifles made as late as the mid 1950's will also be found with British proofs if they were sold commercially out of England.

Many weapons were bought out of South America by British Arms dealers, and were later sold to US surplus arms dealers. These weapons will also have the British proofs as a requirement of being sold commercially out of England.

I certainly hope that no one thought for a minute that if a shipload of weapons in transit merely docked in England that the weapons were off loaded and proofed before they could continue their journey.

[Joe]

Michael

I hate to get between the members discussing English proof marks, but in answer to your orginial question as to the meaning of L.O.120., it is a Weimar police unit mark. This unit mark should be on the front grip strap. The L. stands for Landjagerei, rural police, The O. stands for the administrative police districk of Osnabruck. The mark 120 is this weapon's inventory number. I have a police bayonet that has the unit mark; L.O.100. It has a brown leather scabbard and this color was issued to the rural police. Your Luger was orginially issued to the Imperial Army in 1916 and later re-issued to the Landjagerei police. Somehow it entered into England, probably after WW II. where it was marked again. A lot of history for this Luger.