Circle-S Police Luger Survey

[Dwight Gruber]

Circle-S marked Police guns generally get a pretty short shrift, descriptively. Beyond noting that they are, indeed, Police guns, they are usually described as "Simson conversions" and left at that.

After discussing this topic off-Forum with Ed Tinker for awhile, it has become clear that an assessment in detail of these Lugers might be useful to help determine their origin. Commonality of markings might reveal a single source for these pistols, or where they might have been used. Or if there are not common markings, this too might be useful knowledge.

So, I have determined to undertake another survey. If you have a Luger marked with a circle-S on the left receiver, I would like to record details about it. The information I am looking for consists of:

Toggle Mark (logo)

Chamber Date

1920 property mark (yes/no)

Serial number (complete, with suffix)

Right Receiver Marks
(even if they are just Imperial inpector stamps and proofs, this will help determine if the toggle train is original or if it might have been replaced in rework--an Erfurt gun with a DWM toggle, for instance.)

Left receiver marks, if different from c-S and serial number

Circle-S position (in front of serial#, or in back)

Rear frame number (number, if present) (crossed out?)

Barrel Marks--all of them

PT/PTV stamp on barrel (yes/no)

Sear Safety (yes/no)

Magazine Safety (yes/no) (clipped, removed, or active)

Rear Toggle Pin numbererd (yes/no)

Grip Markings

Unit Marks (yes/no) (if yes, the mark itself)

Any other stamps present on gun (e.g. HZa, etc.) and where

Magazine (if matching, base material and markings)

Comments or other characteristics worth noting

When you report markings, particularly if they are unusual ones, a page-number and marking number reference to Costanzo will be useful. If you can't provide it, just the description will do fine.

Please respond on-Forum, or by email dwightg@clear.net if you'd rather not make it public here. I am posting this on both Forums, and will be making the request in Auto Mag as well, so it may take a couple months to publish any kind of result.

And no, this doesn't mean I have abandoned my commercial serial# survey--I am still trying to track down Dave Soracco, or the key to his database (in case anybody knows it). Its just that I don't have any new Lugers to post about, so I'll fill time with this until I do.

Thanks in advance to everybody for your assistance and information.

--Dwight