Brad Simpson,...HK Luger Follow-Up...?

[John Sabato]

[quote]I simply pointed to an example of boosting that anyone can look at and decide for themselves. <hr></blockquote>

Brad I believe this is a hard point on which there is much debate...

You have NOT pointed at a hard example of boosting... what you have done is propose a theory that because two photographs appear in a book that imply that a boosting has taken place that it has really happened...

You have made no allowance for any circustances that could have produced the error in publication except that a Luger got boosted. There could certainly be a mixup in photos during publication... The only fact we have ascertained is that the photos exist in a published book.

Please let me be clear on this... I am not saying that you are wrong, only that there could be other facts that could produce the same circumstances... No matter how much coincidence is reported, coincidence doesn't make anything a fact. If there is more than one plausible explanation possible, then any effort expended should be used to validate one possibility from the many proposed.

[quote]there seem to be members who don't believe that boosted guns exist. <hr></blockquote>

Brad who might they be? I have never seen anyone post on this forum in several years that fall into that category...

[quote] There also seem to be members who believe certain guns are right because "experts" say so. <hr></blockquote>

Opinions are like er, ...elbows! everybody has some... So called EXPERTS convince others of the veracity of their statements by using FACTS that either make logical sense to the uninitiated, or they don't...

A neophyte should be able to take stated FACTS and draw his or her own conclusions... Your method of stating the facts falls short here because the only facts you have stated are that two photographs imply that they are the same pistol, and the last known owner of the latter of these two pistols is the same person who has possession of the .45 carbine.

Everything else is pure conjecture portrayed as fact... and it will be until all the FACTS are revealed either by disclosure or discovery.

The true facts may never get revealed or discovered and there are many who would take a subjective view what we know to be FACTs (and I include you and Jan in this category), and add speculation and conjecture to draw their own conclusions and then pass them on to others as facts...

The other camp here includes those who have seen and understand the FACTS as we know them and will NOT draw a conclusion based on speculation or conjecture, nor find anybody guilty or innocent, until additional facts are revealed or discovered

...Why?? because the case as stated has insufficient data to be declared proven or otherwise a fact.

Pete's list of questions must receive indisputable answers for the second group to make a valid conclusion.

Additional posturing and rhetoric will not make the case... only additional FACTS derived from answers to the questions posed.

Nobody here disputes your right or anyone's right to draw your own conclusions based on what you know or think you know, but don't be too disappointed when you don't find universal agreement to your position.

I too stand by what I have written, and I am confident that many here stand behind this interpretation of the FACTS as we know them.

I would like to thank all who have participated in this lively discussion in a civil manner and demeanor... It is a pleasure to be associated with people with manners... I can easily picture how this discussion might have looked if it had taken place on any other discussion forum [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

My recommendation is that the next step be RESEARCH by all who have an interest in the truth... When and if you find additional truth, POST IT HERE on this same thread... additional rumors or speculation will add nothing to the achievement of a truthful conclusion to the Luger mysteries that have been posed. Additional threads on the same discussion only dilute and delay the answers...

<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />