Vickers of Questionable Virtue

Dwight Gruber · 11-18-2002, 12:07 AM

Picked up a "Vickers" today, one with sufficiently strange characteristics to be knowledgeably guessable or Wild-Ass-Guessable. The gun is mismatched and reworked, as I am led to expect for these guns, "Rust" above the safety as on any good Dutch Luger.

So far, so good. The toggle train is all Vickers and matching, you can see the Vickers proofs on all three pieces.

Horizontal version here EBT:
Top Horizontal

The barrel is a rebarrel, the barrel band is a millimeter or so longer than those found on a Navy or Artillery. However, there are no numbers as would be expected, just a stamp whith what looks like a wrinkled W in a circle.

The grips are coarsely chekered, but are poorly moulded of some odd black plastic material. The molds were apparently made from a matched pair of real wood grips, there appears to be wood grain molded into the plastic in the backs, as well as serial numbers from the mold source.

Larger version here EBT:
Larger pic of grips

Now here's the odd thing. I said the gun was a mismatch. The frame, though Dutch, is actually serial# 12517, which puts it squarely in the middle of the Royal Dutch Air Force contract, not Vickers. There is no evidence of a brass plate ever having been affixed to the frame. The trigger belongs to the frame, most of the other small parts are totally miscellaneous.

The receiver has a crown/N on the left side, but no corresponding Circle-KL on the right as a Dutch Air Force Luger would have.

So, it is a Vickers but not a Vickers, Dutch but not Dutch.

Does anyone have any knowledgable thoughts on any of this? Is this simply an assembly job, or is there a known provenance explanation for its state? I'm not going to be distressed by the possible answers here, its a great learning opportunity.

--Dwight

11-18-2002, 12:07 AM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Vickers of Questionable Virtue Picked up a "Vickers" today, one with sufficiently strange characteristics to be knowledgeably guessable or Wild-Ass-Guessable. The gun is mismatched and reworked, as I am led to expect for these guns, "Rust" above the safety as on any good Dutch Luger. So far, so good. The toggle train is all Vickers and matching, you can see the Vickers proofs on all three pieces. Horizontal version here EBT: Top Horizontal The barrel is a rebarrel, the barrel band is a millimeter or so longer than those found on a Navy or Artillery. However, there are no numbers as would be expected, just a stamp whith what looks like a wrinkled W in a circle. The grips are coarsely chekered, but are poorly moulded of some odd black plastic material. The molds were apparently made from a matched pair of real wood grips, there appears to be wood grain molded into the plastic in the backs, as well as serial numbers from the mold source. Larger version here EBT: Larger pic of grips Now here's the odd thing. I said the gun was a mismatch. The frame, though Dutch, is actually serial# 12517, which puts it squarely in the middle of the Royal Dutch Air Force contract, not Vickers. There is no evidence of a brass plate ever having been affixed to the frame. The trigger belongs to the frame, most of the other small parts are totally miscellaneous. The receiver has a crown/N on the left side, but no corresponding Circle-KL on the right as a Dutch Air Force Luger would have. So, it is a Vickers but not a Vickers, Dutch but not Dutch. Does anyone have any knowledgable thoughts on any of this? Is this simply an assembly job, or is there a known provenance explanation for its state? I'm not going to be distressed by the possible answers here, its a great learning opportunity. --Dwight