Another holster question

Mike Fitz · 12-07-2003, 02:15 AM

Hi Guys,
I recently acquired a byf41 with a holster.
The holster is a black leather hard-shell and the stitching while dirty is all intact. It has the compartment for the tool on the inside of the flap.
It is marked on the back. Upper right side large P 08. Upper left side reads E.G. LEUNER GmbH BAUTZEN 1941. It has a Waffenamt Eagle/Swastika/ WaA 159.
Holster shows nice wear and the only real downside is that there are four holes on the flap. Two on each side of the strap.
The person I got this rig from said there were 2 metal Nazi emblems/insignia that the Vet he acquired it from had attached to the holster but he removed them prior to selling it.
My question is, if it were yours, would you leave it as is or try to get it repaired?
Can it be repaired?
I am attaching jpg pictures of it.
Many thanks,
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
Mike

John Sabato · 12-07-2003, 11:31 AM

Good photos Mike. If the belt loops are pliable, I would store an appropriate piece of bubble wrap inside the loops to maintain their shape before the holster hardens from age... They look pretty flat inthe photo.

Edward Tinker · 12-07-2003, 01:39 PM

Jerry would have to suggest if it is worthwhile to fix the holes. If I remember correctly, it is very difficult to repair holes like that. I would either leave it as is, or find out what medals / medalions were on the holster and replace them with the real ones or copies.

Ed

lugerholsterrepair · 12-07-2003, 02:55 PM

Mike, This sort of damage is hard to restore back to original, nay, impossible.

There is a way to make the holes somewhat smaller and not so noticable. Put a mandrel behinb the hole you wish to work on and beat the hole gently with a plastic hammer. This will flatten the high ridges around the hole and push these edges into it making the hole smaller. Be careful not to mar or dent the surface of the top lid. Tap gently and work to feather it in. These holes were probably poked through and not drilled so most of the original leather is still there, just pushed aside.

Another repair which will not be any more satisfactory than the one I just mentioned is to take a hole punch and cut out a round hole in the leather, then replace it with another just like it out of another piece of period leather. This always leaves an obvious ring line around the hole no matter how skillfully it is done. The hole will never completely disapear.

The third alternative is to change out tops with another holster that has a damaged body. This is the best alternative for completely restoring a holster back to what would have been original configuration. Only a couple of challenges here. The top you may be looking for would ideally come from the same year and manufacturer to fit properly. Other tops can be made to fit but not as easily. Tops are also hard to find in good condition. They were one of the first parts on a holster to be damaged or messed with. Changing a top out is an expensive proposition and only recommended for rare holsters.

I have thought of grinding or sanding up old leather and mixing it with some sort of adhesive to use to plug small holes or cracks. Sort of like carpenters do with wood putty. I have been to busy to investigate the proper adhesive for something like this but will hopefully experiment with it in the near future.

Nothing I have ever found will bring the texture and luster of nice surface leather back to what it once was when new. What is gone is gone, the damage can only be minimized if that is possible.

Hope this helps, Jerry Burney

Mike Fitz · 12-07-2003, 04:40 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by John Sabato:
Good photos Mike. If the belt loops are pliable, I would store an appropriate piece of bubble wrap inside the loops to maintain their shape before the holster hardens from age... They look pretty flat inthe photo.<hr /></blockquote>Hi John,
They are pretty flat and they are pliable.
Thanks for the advice with the bubble wrap. I will definitely take care of it.
Best regards,
Mike

Mike Fitz · 12-07-2003, 04:51 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Edward Tinker:
Jerry would have to suggest if it is worthwhile to fix the holes. If I remember correctly, it is very difficult to repair holes like that. I would either leave it as is, or find out what medals / medalions were on the holster and replace them with the real ones or copies.

Ed<hr /></blockquote>Hi Ed,
Those were my thoughts.
The person I got it from said he remembered one of the emblems as looking like an eagle with outstretched wings holding a swastika in it's talons.
Sounds like possibly the Nazi hat badge.
Wermacht? Luftwaffe? I tried explaining the difference but he wasn't sure.
He did not remember what the other one was.
Probably best to just leave well enough alone.
Thanks for your input.
Best regards,
Mike

Mike Fitz · 12-07-2003, 05:02 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lugerholsterrepair:
Mike, This sort of damage is hard to restore back to original, nay, impossible.
...There is a way to make the holes somewhat smaller and not so noticable.
...Another repair which will not be any more satisfactory than the one I just mentioned is to take a hole punch
...The third alternative is to change out tops with another holster that has a damaged body. This is the best alternative for completely restoring a holster back to what would have been original configuration. Only a couple of challenges here. Hope this helps, Jerry Burney<hr /></blockquote>Hi Jerry,
Thanks for your input.
From the comments I have read about your abilities I feel that you would know if something could be done.
It appears that the holes were made by punching through the flap from the inside out.
I have attached larger photo's to show the holes more clearly.
Please keep me in mind if you should come up with any suggestions in the future.
Best regards,
Mike

Larger image:
http://www.cyberonic.com/~mikef6/badges/HOLSTR2.JPG
<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/holstr2.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/holstr2.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

lugerholsterrepair · 12-08-2003, 12:25 AM

Mike, There are many limitations to restoring damaged surface leather so none of the solutions I suggested are going to be the magic solution.

Sort of remindes me of how good looking I am, some things you just gotta live with! Jerry Burney

John Sabato · 12-08-2003, 11:50 AM

Jerry,

Have you been spending a lot of time reading old message posts from Big Norm

12-07-2003, 02:15 AM	#1
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Another holster question Hi Guys, I recently acquired a byf41 with a holster. The holster is a black leather hard-shell and the stitching while dirty is all intact. It has the compartment for the tool on the inside of the flap. It is marked on the back. Upper right side large P 08. Upper left side reads E.G. LEUNER GmbH BAUTZEN 1941. It has a Waffenamt Eagle/Swastika/ WaA 159. Holster shows nice wear and the only real downside is that there are four holes on the flap. Two on each side of the strap. The person I got this rig from said there were 2 metal Nazi emblems/insignia that the Vet he acquired it from had attached to the holster but he removed them prior to selling it. My question is, if it were yours, would you leave it as is or try to get it repaired? Can it be repaired? I am attaching jpg pictures of it. Many thanks, <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> Mike

12-07-2003, 11:31 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Good photos Mike. If the belt loops are pliable, I would store an appropriate piece of bubble wrap inside the loops to maintain their shape before the holster hardens from age... They look pretty flat inthe photo. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-07-2003, 01:39 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Jerry would have to suggest if it is worthwhile to fix the holes. If I remember correctly, it is very difficult to repair holes like that. I would either leave it as is, or find out what medals / medalions were on the holster and replace them with the real ones or copies. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-07-2003, 02:55 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Mike, This sort of damage is hard to restore back to original, nay, impossible. There is a way to make the holes somewhat smaller and not so noticable. Put a mandrel behinb the hole you wish to work on and beat the hole gently with a plastic hammer. This will flatten the high ridges around the hole and push these edges into it making the hole smaller. Be careful not to mar or dent the surface of the top lid. Tap gently and work to feather it in. These holes were probably poked through and not drilled so most of the original leather is still there, just pushed aside. Another repair which will not be any more satisfactory than the one I just mentioned is to take a hole punch and cut out a round hole in the leather, then replace it with another just like it out of another piece of period leather. This always leaves an obvious ring line around the hole no matter how skillfully it is done. The hole will never completely disapear. The third alternative is to change out tops with another holster that has a damaged body. This is the best alternative for completely restoring a holster back to what would have been original configuration. Only a couple of challenges here. The top you may be looking for would ideally come from the same year and manufacturer to fit properly. Other tops can be made to fit but not as easily. Tops are also hard to find in good condition. They were one of the first parts on a holster to be damaged or messed with. Changing a top out is an expensive proposition and only recommended for rare holsters. I have thought of grinding or sanding up old leather and mixing it with some sort of adhesive to use to plug small holes or cracks. Sort of like carpenters do with wood putty. I have been to busy to investigate the proper adhesive for something like this but will hopefully experiment with it in the near future. Nothing I have ever found will bring the texture and luster of nice surface leather back to what it once was when new. What is gone is gone, the damage can only be minimized if that is possible. Hope this helps, Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-07-2003, 04:40 PM	#5
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by John Sabato: <strong>Good photos Mike. If the belt loops are pliable, I would store an appropriate piece of bubble wrap inside the loops to maintain their shape before the holster hardens from age... They look pretty flat inthe photo.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi John, They are pretty flat and they are pliable. Thanks for the advice with the bubble wrap. I will definitely take care of it. Best regards, Mike

12-07-2003, 04:51 PM	#6
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Edward Tinker: <strong>Jerry would have to suggest if it is worthwhile to fix the holes. If I remember correctly, it is very difficult to repair holes like that. I would either leave it as is, or find out what medals / medalions were on the holster and replace them with the real ones or copies. Ed</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi Ed, Those were my thoughts. The person I got it from said he remembered one of the emblems as looking like an eagle with outstretched wings holding a swastika in it's talons. Sounds like possibly the Nazi hat badge. Wermacht? Luftwaffe? I tried explaining the difference but he wasn't sure. He did not remember what the other one was. Probably best to just leave well enough alone. Thanks for your input. Best regards, Mike

12-07-2003, 05:02 PM	#7
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by lugerholsterrepair: <strong>Mike, This sort of damage is hard to restore back to original, nay, impossible. ...There is a way to make the holes somewhat smaller and not so noticable. ...Another repair which will not be any more satisfactory than the one I just mentioned is to take a hole punch ...The third alternative is to change out tops with another holster that has a damaged body. This is the best alternative for completely restoring a holster back to what would have been original configuration. Only a couple of challenges here. Hope this helps, Jerry Burney</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi Jerry, Thanks for your input. From the comments I have read about your abilities I feel that you would know if something could be done. It appears that the holes were made by punching through the flap from the inside out. I have attached larger photo's to show the holes more clearly. Please keep me in mind if you should come up with any suggestions in the future. Best regards, Mike Larger image: http://www.cyberonic.com/~mikef6/badges/HOLSTR2.JPG <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/holstr2.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/holstr2.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

12-08-2003, 12:25 AM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Mike, There are many limitations to restoring damaged surface leather so none of the solutions I suggested are going to be the magic solution. Sort of remindes me of how good looking I am, some things you just gotta live with! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-08-2003, 11:50 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Jerry, Have you been spending a lot of time reading old message posts from Big Norm __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*