My Weekend Question - Sneak Luger

Frank · 05-18-2001, 07:20 PM

I know a Sneak was made in 1933 and early 1934. But what is it? What should be the correct Chamber and Toggle Marks? What are the proper acceptance and proof marks? What is the proper magazine?

Thor · 05-18-2001, 07:39 PM

No marks, that is why it is so SNEAKY!

SteveM · 05-18-2001, 07:48 PM

The suffix will either be r,s,t,u. It may or may not have

DWM on the toggle. It may or may not have gripstrap markings. It should have a sear safety and possibly could have a magazine safety. The correct magazine will be police marked and will be numbered 1 or 2. It could be serialed in the commercial or military style or could have a combination of both.The last 2 digits could be located on the same part in 2 different locations(sideplate, td lever, etc..)It could be proofed with E/WaA66,E/H,a commercial proof C/N. The magazines could either have wood or metal bases and could be mixed but still matched to the gun.

These pistols are an interesting variation. Who knows what you might find.

SteveM

BILL · 05-19-2001, 01:47 PM

How would one definitely tell the difference between a so called 'sneak' and a late model unmarked commercial? It is a very interesting variation. I have heard some 'hawkers' over the years using the term 'nazi sneak' to sell some plain-jane otherwise uninteresting '23 commercials (similar in some respects to the very deadly 'Black Widow'). Granted, there is documentation that sneaks are a reality.

Thor · 05-19-2001, 02:08 PM

One way is the serial range, I think sneaks GENERALLY have r,s, t, v type subscripts. I have read this but cannot substaintiate it! I do believe they would be later in the production range than the 23 commercials so that would seem to be a way to go on telling the difference, assuming the subscripts were orginal to the gun. Thor

SteveM · 05-19-2001, 05:29 PM

The sneaks will be in the r,s,t,u serial range and will most of the time have gripstrap markings. A small percentage will not have gripstrap markings. These were built for police use and will have a sear safety and most likely a mag safety.(All the ones that I have seen have had the mag safety removed.)There is a very good example of one on Auction Arms. It is serial numbered in both the military and commercial style. The pics aren't very sharp but are good enough to see them. As to '23 commercials, they have 5 digit serial numbers if memory serves me correctly. Here is the link to AA for the Sneak.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=1358255

SteveM

SteveM · 05-19-2001, 05:31 PM

Ted,

If I remember correctly, 1923 commercials have a five digit serial number.

SteveM

Thor · 05-19-2001, 07:47 PM

You are right Steve, the 1920s have a subscript! The 1923s had a five digit number, thanks! Ted

Frank · 05-20-2001, 08:20 AM

Thanks for all the information, including the email from bill m. I hope it not only helped me, but other members of the forum.

05-21-2001, 12:33 AM

We newbies accept the printed word without question. That's one reason we are called "newbies". Aaron Davis states in "The Luger Handbook" at page x: "There is a variation of the Luger that does not fit into any category. It is most often called the Sneak. As with any manufactured product that can be assembled from the parts outside the factory, Lugers were smuggled out of DWM piece by piece in lunch boxes and reconstructed at home. The examples of this type of Luger will run the gamut...". Quere: True, folklore, or just plain old BS? PS: I learned over the weekend that "Toad" in German is (approximately) "kroete" (since I don't have an umlaut on my keyboard). Regards to all.

05-18-2001, 07:20 PM	#1
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 165 Times in 87 Posts	My Weekend Question - Sneak Luger I know a Sneak was made in 1933 and early 1934. But what is it? What should be the correct Chamber and Toggle Marks? What are the proper acceptance and proof marks? What is the proper magazine?

05-18-2001, 07:39 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 971 Times in 277 Posts	Re: My Weekend Question - Sneak Luger No marks, that is why it is so SNEAKY!

05-18-2001, 07:48 PM	#3
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Re: My Weekend Question - Sneak Luger The suffix will either be r,s,t,u. It may or may not have DWM on the toggle. It may or may not have gripstrap markings. It should have a sear safety and possibly could have a magazine safety. The correct magazine will be police marked and will be numbered 1 or 2. It could be serialed in the commercial or military style or could have a combination of both.The last 2 digits could be located on the same part in 2 different locations(sideplate, td lever, etc..)It could be proofed with E/WaA66,E/H,a commercial proof C/N. The magazines could either have wood or metal bases and could be mixed but still matched to the gun. These pistols are an interesting variation. Who knows what you might find. SteveM

05-19-2001, 01:47 PM	#4
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: My Weekend Question - Sneak Luger How would one definitely tell the difference between a so called 'sneak' and a late model unmarked commercial? It is a very interesting variation. I have heard some 'hawkers' over the years using the term 'nazi sneak' to sell some plain-jane otherwise uninteresting '23 commercials (similar in some respects to the very deadly 'Black Widow'). Granted, there is documentation that sneaks are a reality.

05-19-2001, 02:08 PM	#5
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 971 Times in 277 Posts	Re: My Weekend Question - Sneak Luger One way is the serial range, I think sneaks GENERALLY have r,s, t, v type subscripts. I have read this but cannot substaintiate it! I do believe they would be later in the production range than the 23 commercials so that would seem to be a way to go on telling the difference, assuming the subscripts were orginal to the gun. Thor

05-19-2001, 05:29 PM	#6
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Re: My Weekend Question - Sneak Luger The sneaks will be in the r,s,t,u serial range and will most of the time have gripstrap markings. A small percentage will not have gripstrap markings. These were built for police use and will have a sear safety and most likely a mag safety.(All the ones that I have seen have had the mag safety removed.)There is a very good example of one on Auction Arms. It is serial numbered in both the military and commercial style. The pics aren't very sharp but are good enough to see them. As to '23 commercials, they have 5 digit serial numbers if memory serves me correctly. Here is the link to AA for the Sneak. http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=1358255 SteveM

05-19-2001, 05:31 PM	#7
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Re: My Weekend Question - Sneak Luger Ted, If I remember correctly, 1923 commercials have a five digit serial number. SteveM

05-19-2001, 07:47 PM	#8
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 971 Times in 277 Posts	Re: My Weekend Question - Sneak Luger You are right Steve, the 1920s have a subscript! The 1923s had a five digit number, thanks! Ted

05-20-2001, 08:20 AM	#9
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 165 Times in 87 Posts	Re: My Weekend Question - Sneak Luger Thanks for all the information, including the email from bill m. I hope it not only helped me, but other members of the forum.

05-21-2001, 12:33 AM	#10
Ad Guest Posts: n/a	Re: My Weekend Question - Sneak Luger We newbies accept the printed word without question. That's one reason we are called "newbies". Aaron Davis states in "The Luger Handbook" at page x: "There is a variation of the Luger that does not fit into any category. It is most often called the Sneak. As with any manufactured product that can be assembled from the parts outside the factory, Lugers were smuggled out of DWM piece by piece in lunch boxes and reconstructed at home. The examples of this type of Luger will run the gamut...". Quere: True, folklore, or just plain old BS? PS: I learned over the weekend that "Toad" in German is (approximately) "kroete" (since I don't have an umlaut on my keyboard). Regards to all.