Fake artillery won't be on e-bay long!

Edward Tinker · 11-25-2002, 12:20 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...item=740185515

this Artillery is a 1917 S/42! Didn't know they made them, won't be on e-bay long, since you aren't supposed to sell guns, and it is already at $1,500!

Stu · 11-25-2002, 01:05 PM

And he ships worldwide ! By the look of it it's been refinished. Is this a parts gun or just had the toggle swapped, I wonder ?

Edward Tinker · 11-25-2002, 01:10 PM

I wondered too.

Also, something interesting, that the power of the web, and esp the forum, when I posted this, it had been looked at 86 times and in less than an hour, had been looked at 101 times, will be interesting to see if and how quick e-bay pulls it?

John Sabato · 11-25-2002, 01:23 PM

i already notified the seller that eBay will pull his auction when they find it... and warned him of the laws he is borderline close to breaking.

I am sure it is a parts gun and has been refinished. Obviously not a guy who deals in firearms... He will be lucky to stay out of jail if he ships it to a non-license holder...

The holster looks like something made by leathercraft store neophyte... and the stock looks like a modern repro...

It certainly isn't worth what the eBay bidding frenzy has pushed it to.

Pete Ebbink · 11-25-2002, 02:03 PM

Borrowing a line from an old Tim-Buk-3 song :

" That luger is so bright,
you gotta wear shades...! "

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

markm3 · 11-25-2002, 09:57 PM

More to come. I bid on it (non-binding, but he doesn't seem to realize that) in order to establish contact with the guy. He e-mailed back offering it for $2,500 outright. Clearly, he wants to get it off his hands before they shut him down.

I replied with a list of questions for him, asking him to get back to me, especially regarding the curious issue of the S/42 marking. I also asked him about the rest of the rig, what is there and what isn't. He responded back with gibberish, at which point I e-mailed him back and told him esentially what John did, and added that even amateur Luger afficionados would spot the thing as a fake, and report him.

No reply yet. He'll probably e-mail me back to see if I'll take it for $2,000. The sheen on the holster and that garish strawing alone are dead giveaways. Still, I am betting someone buys it. I noticed the guy who had bid before me was largely responsible for bidding up several artilleries on Gun Broker a few months ago.

Makes me wonder if these guys are a bunch of bid shillers, working together.

Pete Ebbink · 11-25-2002, 10:26 PM

Mark,

There is an auction seller that goes by the name "Top Ray". I have tried to buy several of his items (5 times to be exact) and every time, within the last hour, a new buyer named "Dorothy 1" pops in with last minute bidding frenzy...I just quit when I see her join...usually she drives up the auction price by 25%...

I think lots of teams "work" the auctions...

Regards,

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Russ · 11-25-2002, 10:41 PM

that kind of thing should be reported to the auction house.

Russ [img]frown.gif[/img] [img]frown.gif[/img]

Edward Tinker · 11-25-2002, 10:48 PM

I think these "teams" are the same person with different auction names or friends working in tandem...

Stu · 11-26-2002, 09:06 AM

Auctions are great in some ways, horrible in others !

You get to see a bunch of things you might never have known exisited, but I think they're driving the price of 'ordinary' things up.

As for the team approach; I suspect the auction sites will deal with them when they cause trouble and you can prove something, but provided they are getting their auction fees may may need some prodding.

I suppose you've just got to decide what you're prepared to bid and not get carried away !

markm3 · 11-26-2002, 10:56 AM

The fellow with the artillery on EBAY replied. Here is what he sent me. Priceless:

"The Luger is 1917 and the entire gun is original to that year except for the top back piece that you can pull back, which says S/42. As I 've been told by experts, apparently in WWII that part was changed for some reason. When you look at the pistol it looks entirely homogeneous and as one. When I purchased the set at a military show in 1995 ( Iwas one of the first people there ), many
collectors who saw me later at the show offered me twice the money I had just paid for it, but I wouldn't sell it. There is no pitting, it has a gorgeous brilliant black blue surface, but the look and feel that it has been used. It also has some gold embellishments. They are gorgeous pieces. You can reach me tomorrow on my cell 917-520-8977 or at 718-399-9053. Over 20 people have
contacted me already! I am also offering a piece owned by Adolf Hitler on eBay also.

I guess we can now reopen the debate over Hitler's memorabilia once this new "piece" (whatever it is) surfaces!

Edward Tinker · 11-26-2002, 11:07 AM

That is something.

A little bit of knowledge sometimes goes a loooong ways. Someone told him, that they refinished Lugers in WW2 and he assumes it makes it pristine.

It would be a fun gun for less than, what $800 or so? [img]smile.gif[/img]

What is the gold embellishments? That is okay, I don't want to know! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

JuergenG · 11-26-2002, 11:10 AM

"many collectors who saw me later at the show offered me twice the money I had just paid for it, but I wouldn't sell it"

Huahuahua!
I read from this that no one offered him more than 200 bucks!

Once he starts to offer his Hitler piece on ebay, would someone please post the photo here ?
Can't open any ads for guns as ebay blocks them for Germans.
Thanks,
Juergen

John Sabato · 11-26-2002, 11:14 AM

Jeurgen,

Try this trick...and let us know if it really works... another member posted this recently...

In your windows setup, you probably told your operating system that you are located in Germany and in that time zone...

change it to the Eastern United States and see if that makes a difference in what you can see on eBay...

I believe this setting is what filters out what you can and cannot see...

markm3 · 11-26-2002, 11:16 PM

The seller of the artillery rig on EBAY has now posted his original Hitler item--a book (incidentally, the artillery rig it is still on there, incredibly, and is bid up to $2,025--either EBAY is getting sloppier, or they are hypnotized watching the price go up, up, up). Here is the description of his Hitler book:

"This is the original 1935 printing of Adolf Hitler Bilder Aus Dem Leben Des Fuhrers. It is 12 X 9 1/2 X 1 1/4 inches, 131 pages with over 145 actual photo plates. The pictures are stunning. It was printed in September 1935 in Hamburg Germany. Payments will be made to Eric Edwards by Money order, cashiers check, Paypal, Bidpay, or EBaypayment. Buyer pays shipping, and insurance. International shipping will be more, will ship worldwide. Returns will be direct to Eric Edwards for full refund within 30 days. Items are guaranteed to be as stated."

Carl · 11-26-2002, 11:17 PM

Go into sellers other items and you can see the Hitler piece offered.

Stu · 11-27-2002, 12:14 PM

I can't believe it's still going; nobody can have reported it yet !

I'm concerned about his offer to ship worldwide and there being no reference to an FFL; someone could get burned on this, big time......

markm3 · 11-27-2002, 12:29 PM

Stu,

In a way, it is worse than it seems. It has been reported, and they are still "investigating" it. If they haven't been able to sort this out yet, they are either incompetent or not trying. He has violated a dozen of their policies, and has been up for days. Based on my e-mails back and forth, I suspect he knows exactly what he is doing.

Someone will get burned. I recognize the high bidder's name as someone who has purchased German C&R firearms on Gun Broker in the past, and I have to assume he knows what he is getting into, but apparently he wants this "rig."

Edward Tinker · 11-27-2002, 12:40 PM

There is also a Luger Frame on right now.

Since I watch items a lot on e-bay, I am surprised at their response. They booted me off in less than a day for not saying a pistol magazine was less than 10 rounds.

I bet they rely on college kids and they are gone for Thanksgiving Holiday Week, so no one to watch the store [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

markm3 · 11-27-2002, 02:59 PM

You know what, I think Ed hit it right on the nose. Now, will it sell before their gremlins come back weary-eyed and bloated from eating too much turkey?

11-25-2002, 12:20 PM	#1
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Fake artillery won't be on e-bay long! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...item=740185515 this Artillery is a 1917 S/42! Didn't know they made them, won't be on e-bay long, since you aren't supposed to sell guns, and it is already at $1,500! __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-25-2002, 01:10 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	I wondered too. Also, something interesting, that the power of the web, and esp the forum, when I posted this, it had been looked at 86 times and in less than an hour, had been looked at 101 times, will be interesting to see if and how quick e-bay pulls it? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-25-2002, 01:23 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	i already notified the seller that eBay will pull his auction when they find it... and warned him of the laws he is borderline close to breaking. I am sure it is a parts gun and has been refinished. Obviously not a guy who deals in firearms... He will be lucky to stay out of jail if he ships it to a non-license holder... The holster looks like something made by leathercraft store neophyte... and the stock looks like a modern repro... It certainly isn't worth what the eBay bidding frenzy has pushed it to. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-25-2002, 09:57 PM	#6
markm3 User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	More to come. I bid on it (non-binding, but he doesn't seem to realize that) in order to establish contact with the guy. He e-mailed back offering it for $2,500 outright. Clearly, he wants to get it off his hands before they shut him down. I replied with a list of questions for him, asking him to get back to me, especially regarding the curious issue of the S/42 marking. I also asked him about the rest of the rig, what is there and what isn't. He responded back with gibberish, at which point I e-mailed him back and told him esentially what John did, and added that even amateur Luger afficionados would spot the thing as a fake, and report him. No reply yet. He'll probably e-mail me back to see if I'll take it for $2,000. The sheen on the holster and that garish strawing alone are dead giveaways. Still, I am betting someone buys it. I noticed the guy who had bid before me was largely responsible for bidding up several artilleries on Gun Broker a few months ago. Makes me wonder if these guys are a bunch of bid shillers, working together. __________________ markm3

11-25-2002, 10:41 PM	#8
Russ User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Reading, PA. Posts: 628 Thanks: 2 Thanked 38 Times in 10 Posts	that kind of thing should be reported to the auction house. Russ [img]frown.gif[/img] [img]frown.gif[/img] __________________ Livin the dream!!!!!!!!!!!

11-25-2002, 01:05 PM	#2
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	And he ships worldwide ! By the look of it it's been refinished. Is this a parts gun or just had the toggle swapped, I wonder ?

11-25-2002, 02:03 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Borrowing a line from an old Tim-Buk-3 song : " That luger is so bright, you gotta wear shades...! " Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

11-25-2002, 10:26 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Mark, There is an auction seller that goes by the name "Top Ray". I have tried to buy several of his items (5 times to be exact) and every time, within the last hour, a new buyer named "Dorothy 1" pops in with last minute bidding frenzy...I just quit when I see her join...usually she drives up the auction price by 25%... I think lots of teams "work" the auctions... Regards, Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

11-25-2002, 10:48 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	I think these "teams" are the same person with different auction names or friends working in tandem... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-26-2002, 09:06 AM	#10
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Auctions are great in some ways, horrible in others ! You get to see a bunch of things you might never have known exisited, but I think they're driving the price of 'ordinary' things up. As for the team approach; I suspect the auction sites will deal with them when they cause trouble and you can prove something, but provided they are getting their auction fees may may need some prodding. I suppose you've just got to decide what you're prepared to bid and not get carried away !

11-26-2002, 10:56 AM	#11
markm3 User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The fellow with the artillery on EBAY replied. Here is what he sent me. Priceless: "The Luger is 1917 and the entire gun is original to that year except for the top back piece that you can pull back, which says S/42. As I 've been told by experts, apparently in WWII that part was changed for some reason. When you look at the pistol it looks entirely homogeneous and as one. When I purchased the set at a military show in 1995 ( Iwas one of the first people there ), many collectors who saw me later at the show offered me twice the money I had just paid for it, but I wouldn't sell it. There is no pitting, it has a gorgeous brilliant black blue surface, but the look and feel that it has been used. It also has some gold embellishments. They are gorgeous pieces. You can reach me tomorrow on my cell 917-520-8977 or at 718-399-9053. Over 20 people have contacted me already! I am also offering a piece owned by Adolf Hitler on eBay also. I guess we can now reopen the debate over Hitler's memorabilia once this new "piece" (whatever it is) surfaces! __________________ markm3

11-26-2002, 11:07 AM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	That is something. A little bit of knowledge sometimes goes a loooong ways. Someone told him, that they refinished Lugers in WW2 and he assumes it makes it pristine. It would be a fun gun for less than, what $800 or so? [img]smile.gif[/img] What is the gold embellishments? That is okay, I don't want to know! [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-26-2002, 11:10 AM	#13
JuergenG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 155 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	"many collectors who saw me later at the show offered me twice the money I had just paid for it, but I wouldn't sell it" Huahuahua! I read from this that no one offered him more than 200 bucks! Once he starts to offer his Hitler piece on ebay, would someone please post the photo here ? Can't open any ads for guns as ebay blocks them for Germans. Thanks, Juergen

11-26-2002, 11:14 AM	#14
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Jeurgen, Try this trick...and let us know if it really works... another member posted this recently... In your windows setup, you probably told your operating system that you are located in Germany and in that time zone... change it to the Eastern United States and see if that makes a difference in what you can see on eBay... I believe this setting is what filters out what you can and cannot see... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-26-2002, 11:16 PM	#15
markm3 User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The seller of the artillery rig on EBAY has now posted his original Hitler item--a book (incidentally, the artillery rig it is still on there, incredibly, and is bid up to $2,025--either EBAY is getting sloppier, or they are hypnotized watching the price go up, up, up). Here is the description of his Hitler book: "This is the original 1935 printing of Adolf Hitler Bilder Aus Dem Leben Des Fuhrers. It is 12 X 9 1/2 X 1 1/4 inches, 131 pages with over 145 actual photo plates. The pictures are stunning. It was printed in September 1935 in Hamburg Germany. Payments will be made to Eric Edwards by Money order, cashiers check, Paypal, Bidpay, or EBaypayment. Buyer pays shipping, and insurance. International shipping will be more, will ship worldwide. Returns will be direct to Eric Edwards for full refund within 30 days. Items are guaranteed to be as stated." __________________ markm3

11-26-2002, 11:17 PM	#16
Carl User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Central PA Posts: 113 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Go into sellers other items and you can see the Hitler piece offered.

11-27-2002, 12:14 PM	#17
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	I can't believe it's still going; nobody can have reported it yet ! I'm concerned about his offer to ship worldwide and there being no reference to an FFL; someone could get burned on this, big time......

11-27-2002, 12:29 PM	#18
markm3 User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Stu, In a way, it is worse than it seems. It has been reported, and they are still "investigating" it. If they haven't been able to sort this out yet, they are either incompetent or not trying. He has violated a dozen of their policies, and has been up for days. Based on my e-mails back and forth, I suspect he knows exactly what he is doing. Someone will get burned. I recognize the high bidder's name as someone who has purchased German C&R firearms on Gun Broker in the past, and I have to assume he knows what he is getting into, but apparently he wants this "rig." __________________ markm3

11-27-2002, 12:40 PM	#19
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	There is also a Luger Frame on right now. Since I watch items a lot on e-bay, I am surprised at their response. They booted me off in less than a day for not saying a pistol magazine was less than 10 rounds. I bet they rely on college kids and they are gone for Thanksgiving Holiday Week, so no one to watch the store [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-27-2002, 02:59 PM	#20
markm3 User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You know what, I think Ed hit it right on the nose. Now, will it sell before their gremlins come back weary-eyed and bloated from eating too much turkey? __________________ markm3