.45 Carbine!!!

Johnny C. Kitchens · 01-31-2003, 02:07 PM

Did everyone take a look at the .45 Carbine on the
World of Luger site?

http://www.worldoflugers.com/carbine.html

Just when you think they might have found everything
there is to know about these wonderful pistols, along
comes a new discovery to shake everything up. What next???

Edward Tinker · 01-31-2003, 08:00 PM

Yes, Johnny, if you do a search on 45 Lugers, you can find some interesting reading material. I held this carbine and all I can say is that it would be nice to own,

Seeing the magazine of the 45 next to a 9mm magazine was very interesting, with the differnece in size!

Big Norm · 01-31-2003, 08:14 PM

Johnny,
the .45 cal Luger has been discussed many times on this forum and its autheticity has been questioned to no resolve. I would like at this moment to add my two cents. I have an article out of the March 1998 issue of 'Guns and Ammo'. It is titled "Return of the .45 Luger" by Garry James, page 52 thru 55. In this article, the author interviews Mr. Mike Krause of Krausewerke in San Mateo, California. Mr Krause was apparently in the initial stages of reproducing the original .45 cal Luger. The following is from the article.

"The first gun is unmarked, as Mike is determining if a "DWM" toggle cipher can be added without trademark problems. The gun will have some kind of toggle stamping - if not DWM, then something that closely approximates it. Each Krausewerke gun will have the Georg Luger "GL" mark behind the rear sight, though".

I am not saying that the Shattuck gun is an expensive fake. But if I had a spare million bucks, I would sooner buy a John Martz Luger and spend the rest being Norm Millionaire on TV.
Big Norm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

Pete Ebbink · 02-01-2003, 08:58 AM

Hello Johnny,

This very controversial .45 cal carbine luger started quite a heated discussion on the "old" Luger Forum, which eventually led to that Forum's demise and to the rise of the Luger Forum as you now see it.

As you can imagine, this debate was quite the affair...and is not settled and may not for some time, if ever.

Mr. Shattuck has traveled with this carbine around the country to several gun shows. As I understand, he always allows any advanced, expert collector to see and handle this pistol in person. Each then can make up their own mind...

You might want to contact Ralph to see if this carbine will be displayed at any upcoming gun shows in your area.

Real or not real; this beginner could never know. But it is one heck of a pistol to hold; either way...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Big Norm · 02-01-2003, 09:14 PM

Ya, I'll bet that a .45 cal Luger would be a whale of a gun to shoot. I'd love to visit John Martz in Lincoln, California just to try the many different caliber Lugers that he has.
People talk about the difference in the size of the barrel. But I wonder about the different size of the grips. Would they have the same feel as our beloved P08?
Big Norm

Edward Tinker · 02-01-2003, 09:43 PM

I have fairly large hands Big Norm, so a wider grip is okay. I have made 45 grips for my 1911 and I make them thicker for me.

Now, I beleive John Martz also made a 38 Super Luger once? That would be something also, but I too am partial to the thought of a 45 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Johnny C. Kitchens · 02-02-2003, 12:46 PM

He was supposed to be developing one in 10mm Auto as well, but I never heard any more about it. I'm a fan of the 10mm Auto, and can tell you that would be one awesome combination. Hmmmm, maybe Aimco could do it!!!

Thor · 02-02-2003, 01:07 PM

Johnny, I onced owned a Glock in 10mm, it was a big beast (compared to the compact models) but held 15 rounds of a very potent cartridge. I called it GLOCKZILLA!!! <img border="0" alt="[offtopic]" title="" src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" />

unspellable · 02-02-2003, 01:27 PM

Johnny,

Aimco has already made a 10 mm Luger. This during the time Mitchell was the distributor. I happened to be talking to someone fairly high up at Mitchell on the phone and they mentioned having had one example in 10 mm made. He said there were no plans to go into production with it, but they were planning one in 40 S&W. Not too long after that Stoeger took over distribution and presumably the 40 S&W idea fell by the wayside.

I never learned how it was that the distributorship passed from Mitchel to Stoeger but, for several rreasons, I've always wished Mitchell had retained it.

I'd like an Aimco in 357 SIG. Hot, but bottlenecked like the 7.65 Parabellum.

Johnny C. Kitchens · 02-02-2003, 03:49 PM

I've owned two 10mm Auto handguns. The Bren Ten and I now have a Glock 20.
The 10mm Auto certainly outperforms other auto pistol cartridges, and I've
never found the recoil objectionable...

I noticed that in John Walter's book "The Luger Story", he says that
Mitchell suffered financial problems. What I find odd about the story is
that he treats the Mitchell Luger as if it is totally different that the
Stoeger Luger. He suspects that no more than a few dozen were made by
Mitchell. There is no mention of Aimco...

schwob · 02-02-2003, 05:25 PM

Gentlemen, I have a question based upon observations of .45 Luger Carbine. Why would such a profound Carbine have a sling that was buckled to the barrel/fore stock and shoulder stock? To my untrained eyes this looks as cheap as it can be.In other pictures it has a sling attached to the swivels. Why would this weapon be shown with slings mounted in 2 different ways. Any thoughts are appreciated, many thanx.....Bob

Russ · 02-02-2003, 05:35 PM

Bob
I think what you are refering to, is the straps that hold the gun in its case.

Russ

schwob · 02-04-2003, 07:28 AM

Russ, you are quite right, I stand corrected. These old eyes ain't what they used to was...

01-31-2003, 02:07 PM	#1
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	.45 Carbine!!! Did everyone take a look at the .45 Carbine on the World of Luger site? http://www.worldoflugers.com/carbine.html Just when you think they might have found everything there is to know about these wonderful pistols, along comes a new discovery to shake everything up. What next??? __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

01-31-2003, 08:00 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Yes, Johnny, if you do a search on 45 Lugers, you can find some interesting reading material. I held this carbine and all I can say is that it would be nice to own, Seeing the magazine of the 45 next to a 9mm magazine was very interesting, with the differnece in size! __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-01-2003, 09:43 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	I have fairly large hands Big Norm, so a wider grip is okay. I have made 45 grips for my 1911 and I make them thicker for me. Now, I beleive John Martz also made a 38 Super Luger once? That would be something also, but I too am partial to the thought of a 45 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-02-2003, 12:46 PM	#7
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	He was supposed to be developing one in 10mm Auto as well, but I never heard any more about it. I'm a fan of the 10mm Auto, and can tell you that would be one awesome combination. Hmmmm, maybe Aimco could do it!!! __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

02-02-2003, 01:07 PM	#8
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Johnny, I onced owned a Glock in 10mm, it was a big beast (compared to the compact models) but held 15 rounds of a very potent cartridge. I called it GLOCKZILLA!!! <img border="0" alt="[offtopic]" title="" src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" /> __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

01-31-2003, 08:14 PM	#3
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Johnny, the .45 cal Luger has been discussed many times on this forum and its autheticity has been questioned to no resolve. I would like at this moment to add my two cents. I have an article out of the March 1998 issue of 'Guns and Ammo'. It is titled "Return of the .45 Luger" by Garry James, page 52 thru 55. In this article, the author interviews Mr. Mike Krause of Krausewerke in San Mateo, California. Mr Krause was apparently in the initial stages of reproducing the original .45 cal Luger. The following is from the article. "The first gun is unmarked, as Mike is determining if a "DWM" toggle cipher can be added without trademark problems. The gun will have some kind of toggle stamping - if not DWM, then something that closely approximates it. Each Krausewerke gun will have the Georg Luger "GL" mark behind the rear sight, though". I am not saying that the Shattuck gun is an expensive fake. But if I had a spare million bucks, I would sooner buy a John Martz Luger and spend the rest being Norm Millionaire on TV. Big Norm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

02-01-2003, 08:58 AM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Johnny, This very controversial .45 cal carbine luger started quite a heated discussion on the "old" Luger Forum, which eventually led to that Forum's demise and to the rise of the Luger Forum as you now see it. As you can imagine, this debate was quite the affair...and is not settled and may not for some time, if ever. Mr. Shattuck has traveled with this carbine around the country to several gun shows. As I understand, he always allows any advanced, expert collector to see and handle this pistol in person. Each then can make up their own mind... You might want to contact Ralph to see if this carbine will be displayed at any upcoming gun shows in your area. Real or not real; this beginner could never know. But it is one heck of a pistol to hold; either way... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

02-01-2003, 09:14 PM	#5
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ya, I'll bet that a .45 cal Luger would be a whale of a gun to shoot. I'd love to visit John Martz in Lincoln, California just to try the many different caliber Lugers that he has. People talk about the difference in the size of the barrel. But I wonder about the different size of the grips. Would they have the same feel as our beloved P08? Big Norm

02-02-2003, 01:27 PM	#9
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	Johnny, Aimco has already made a 10 mm Luger. This during the time Mitchell was the distributor. I happened to be talking to someone fairly high up at Mitchell on the phone and they mentioned having had one example in 10 mm made. He said there were no plans to go into production with it, but they were planning one in 40 S&W. Not too long after that Stoeger took over distribution and presumably the 40 S&W idea fell by the wayside. I never learned how it was that the distributorship passed from Mitchel to Stoeger but, for several rreasons, I've always wished Mitchell had retained it. I'd like an Aimco in 357 SIG. Hot, but bottlenecked like the 7.65 Parabellum.

02-02-2003, 03:49 PM	#10
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	I've owned two 10mm Auto handguns. The Bren Ten and I now have a Glock 20. The 10mm Auto certainly outperforms other auto pistol cartridges, and I've never found the recoil objectionable... I noticed that in John Walter's book "The Luger Story", he says that Mitchell suffered financial problems. What I find odd about the story is that he treats the Mitchell Luger as if it is totally different that the Stoeger Luger. He suspects that no more than a few dozen were made by Mitchell. There is no mention of Aimco... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

02-02-2003, 05:25 PM	#11
schwob RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Coast of Maine Posts: 273 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Gentlemen, I have a question based upon observations of .45 Luger Carbine. Why would such a profound Carbine have a sling that was buckled to the barrel/fore stock and shoulder stock? To my untrained eyes this looks as cheap as it can be.In other pictures it has a sling attached to the swivels. Why would this weapon be shown with slings mounted in 2 different ways. Any thoughts are appreciated, many thanx.....Bob

02-02-2003, 05:35 PM	#12
Russ User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Reading, PA. Posts: 628 Thanks: 2 Thanked 38 Times in 10 Posts	Bob I think what you are refering to, is the straps that hold the gun in its case. Russ __________________ Livin the dream!!!!!!!!!!!

02-04-2003, 07:28 AM	#13
schwob RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Coast of Maine Posts: 273 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Russ, you are quite right, I stand corrected. These old eyes ain't what they used to was...