P.08 as a home defense weapon ?

ichabod · 08-25-2002, 10:47 PM

Howdy ya'll ! I used to post on your forum as "gewher guy". I have a 1939 Soviet-capture P.08 I'm going to be using as a home defense weapon - anyone have any thoughts on ammo ?

ToggleTop · 08-25-2002, 11:22 PM

Cecil,
Personnally, I like to use Winchester 115 Gr. Metal Point. It's fairly inexpensive. For home protection I just cannot seem to get away from my Mossberg 9-shot loaded with 00-0B buckshot though!! My AK-47 works well but I miss a lot with it! <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Hugh · 08-26-2002, 12:22 AM

I agree with Toggletop, I got me one of them Mossbergs with 00"s to! But in my other "home defense" guns, I got handloaded hollowpoints in the M1 Carbine in one room, Winchester softpoints in the Mini-14 in another room, Remington Golden Sabers in my Browning HP in another room, Winchester Silver Tips in my 45 Commander in another room, and Winchester Black Talons in my Officers Mdl 45 in my truck. No Sir! I ain't paranoid!
<img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />

For a home defense Luger, I would opt for Black Talon, Golden Saber, or Hydra Shock if it will shoot them reliably. [img]cool.gif[/img]

Edward Tinker · 08-26-2002, 12:34 AM

Yup, those shotguns are your best bet. But I keep a 45 ACP revolver by the side of the bed loaded with hydroshocks. I would grab a Luger if I had too, but I believe they should fall down and quit fighting back and the 9 mm isn't always known to do that.

Ed

Johnny Peppers · 08-26-2002, 12:36 AM

Hugh,
Don't forget about the room where you are the most vulnerable and the most likely to get caught with your pants down.

Edward Tinker · 08-26-2002, 12:39 AM

Hugh, I think he means the Library.

[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Hugh · 08-26-2002, 02:37 AM

Johnny,

That's where the Browning HP is! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

Luke, That's where the S&W 357 Mag I forgot to mention is! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

JuergenG · 08-26-2002, 08:27 AM

Politically incorrect in my country also.
We are supposed to talk these buddies to surrender.
Other than that, the Rem 870 Marine would do a good job, IMHO.
Juergen

hermit · 08-26-2002, 09:04 AM

A little off topic here but I believe canada is well on it's way to do just those 4 things. Hard to believe that I soon may not be able to go hunting with his old man. The government here just passed off the responsibility to a private company, which has access to many of my most personal information. Criminal record; doesnt matter how minor; which prescription drugs I take
and a lot of other things which I think is an invasion of my privacy. I wonder how many criminals in canada will have registered their weapons? I could rant on but it just makes me angrier. Sorry to post it here but do not let them get away with one bit of the crap they pulled here. If I thought this program would make it safer for police and civilians alike, I would be all for it. Thanks for letting me vent! <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

kidvett · 08-26-2002, 02:18 PM

Hi Hermit,

I'm Canadian too and I do beleive that C68 ( Gun Control Law of 1998 ) is a failure....it's my opinion as a CFC Certified Verifier, a Law Enforcement Officer, a firearms collector and a hunter....

And you're right on that one: Criminals dont registrer guns....last week at work we arrested 3 car thieves and one of them had a nice North American Arms 22 cal mini gun in his pockets: loaded with Federal hp's and sure enough NOT REGISTERED.....

C68 has made it though for us collectors....4 inch LUGERS are now Prohibited weapons and cannot get their way in Canada....Very sad for us....

Now for that home defense stuff: Glock 19 w/ night sights loaded with an alternate selection of Glaser Safety Slugs/ Federal +P+ 115gr JHP's.....backup being a 12GA. pump w/ 000B tactical...

kidvett [img]cool.gif[/img]

08-26-2002, 03:39 PM

Doubs · 08-26-2002, 03:39 PM

[quote]Originally posted by ichabod:
<strong>Howdy ya'll ! I used to post on your forum as "gewher guy". I have a 1939 Soviet-capture P.08 I'm going to be using as a home defense weapon - anyone have any thoughts on ammo ?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I would personally want a hollow point or soft nose bullet. My 1927 Argentine .45 ACP is loaded with Winchester Black Talons. Elsewhere in the house I have a Chinese Model 213 Tokarev in 9mm but have been thinking of using the .38 Super conversion kit I have. The chambers of both pistols are empty because I have a 4 year old granddaughter in the house. While she is already trained to never touch a gun for any reason, she can't work a slide because she doesn't have the strength... yet.

The first consideration for your choice of ammunition is reliability. Be absolutely certain that your ammo will function with 100% reliability in your Luger. That's a tall order for a Luger when hollow points or soft nose bullets are involved. If you find such a load, my advice (opinion) is to leave the chamber empty purely for safety considerations. I don't think of the Luger as the best choice for a home defense pistol and if any of the above conditions can't be met, I'd seriously think of getting another gun for the purpose. Just my $.02

Heydrich · 08-26-2002, 04:27 PM

My DWM Luger is my weapon of personal home defense by default. I live in a pretty densely populated living complex, so I am not going to fire one of K98 rifles with its FMJ rounds. The bullet would not stop till after it had gone through about two other units. And as far as anyone every having to use a handgun in home defense against some kind of quasi-mysterious stranger, here are the facts: According to the FBI, if you are a typical law-abiding adult white male in America, your chances of being randomly murdered by a complete “stranger” are extremely slim. You are much more likely to be assaulted and murdered by: a family member (including a spouse or ex-spouse), a co-worker, or a current or former “friend”. Very sobering.

Doubs · 08-26-2002, 05:42 PM

Tacfoley, that's a very good summation of conditions in the majority of the UK. I held a British Firearm's License for a few years. I was authorized three handguns; a .22, a .38/.357 and a 9mm. My choices were a Colt Match Target Woodsman, a S&W 586 and a commercial CZ-75 with a deep, rich blue finish. This was before the CZ-75 could legally be imported for sale into the US. I later traded the Colt in for an Erma ESP-85. All three handguns are still in my possession. I also, of course, had a shotgun permit.

To illustrate how differently the British viewed certain things, they expected a gun to be invisable to the public. I bought the Colt in London's Elephant & Castle station district. I put it in my briefcase and took the tube back to the train station where I caught the next train to Ipswich and then drove home.

Silencers (suppressors) are completely legal.

For reloaders, or home loaders as it was called there, the trick was to keep your assembled ammunition equal to or below your authorized limit. Have all the components you wished and as long as they were not assembled into a round, you were legal. I loaded for .38/.357, 9mm and two shotgun gauges. As I shot competitively for the Suffolk County Pistol Team, I reloaded and shot a lot.

It was an experience of a lifetime and I met many outstanding individuals while there, including past Olympic competitors and those with an excellent chance of making the next team.

ichabod · 08-26-2002, 07:58 PM

Well, heck ! Maybe I'll just take my remaining five rounds of S&B .30 Mauser and press my bolo broom into guard duty. It's blue has been replaced by gray but it's got a new bore (ala Redman) and all the springs have been replaced. Plus it's so damn ugly it's bound to scare off a few burglars <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" /> [img]biggrin.gif[/img] !

hermit · 08-26-2002, 08:51 PM

Just another quick vent; I am glad to see that Kiddvett agrees with our new regs being a failure. Home defense here now would be a very touchy subject. How long would it take to get my 870 out of the gun safe and then unlock the seperately stored ammo? I also think there will soon be a lot more brazen criminal break ins if they know the people inside have no protection. We did have a fair law in place all ready with the FAC, but for some reason that was never monitored to my knowledge. The new regs have cost us millions and milions of dollars. I hope they come around soon as I dearly love all firearms and related sports but it is getting very hard to put up with the nonsense. Sorry guys; I'll stop this time! [img]redface.gif[/img]

wterrell · 08-26-2002, 09:00 PM

It is my understanding that violent crime and burglary has drastically increased in Britain since the laws went into effect.

Doubs · 08-26-2002, 10:52 PM

[quote]Originally posted by tacfoley:
<strong>Yo Doubs - I bet you bought the gun from Tom Collins, hey? Betcha glad you're in the USA , too......
tacfoley <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

You're absolutely correct.... Tom Collins it was. A rather odd bird. I called before making the trip and he assured me he had what I was looking for. When I arrived, he couldn't find the MT Woodsman so he asked if I'd come back in an hour or two. I said I would and left. When I returned he said "I've got it here somewhere" and then took another 20 minutes trying to remember where he'd put it!!

Someone once told me that he blew himself out of his shop into the street with black powder one day but that is only hearsay. I believe his nephew was a TV star in a cop series. I remember the show but not the name of it.

I have great memories of my stay in England. I used to love going to the Richardson Brother's shop in Halesworth to look at their shotguns. Very nice Blokes they were and excellent gunsmiths.

Take care,
Doubs

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Roadkill · 08-26-2002, 11:29 PM

I keep a 12 ga 20" double barrel stagecoach rabbit ear in the bedroom, a 12 ga Win. Mod 97 in the living room, a 12 ga Win Mod 12 in the den, and a 12 ga Rogers double barrel hanging in the hall. All with 00, all but one out of sight. But my best home defense is my ugly dog Buster, my mentally challenged hound dog Axel, and a very intelligent German Shepard stray mix named Girl Dog (she's a girl). I fenced in about four acres surrounding the house, they don't let anyone who doesn't belong around. Buster looks like a cut down bear, Axel is so dumb he isn't afraid of anything, and Girl Dog is just flat out intimidating when she gets fired up. Two pumps, two double barrels, all 12 ga, and three dogs. We sleep well.

RK
<img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" />

Hugh · 08-27-2002, 12:10 AM

Roadkill,

And I thought I was paranoid! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

08-25-2002, 10:47 PM	#1
ichabod User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	P.08 as a home defense weapon ? Howdy ya'll ! I used to post on your forum as "gewher guy". I have a 1939 Soviet-capture P.08 I'm going to be using as a home defense weapon - anyone have any thoughts on ammo ? __________________ "No snowflake ever feels responsible for the avalanche." Haywood Yasumi

08-25-2002, 11:22 PM	#2
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Cecil, Personnally, I like to use Winchester 115 Gr. Metal Point. It's fairly inexpensive. For home protection I just cannot seem to get away from my Mossberg 9-shot loaded with 00-0B buckshot though!! My AK-47 works well but I miss a lot with it! <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

08-26-2002, 12:22 AM	#3
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 166 Times in 65 Posts	I agree with Toggletop, I got me one of them Mossbergs with 00"s to! But in my other "home defense" guns, I got handloaded hollowpoints in the M1 Carbine in one room, Winchester softpoints in the Mini-14 in another room, Remington Golden Sabers in my Browning HP in another room, Winchester Silver Tips in my 45 Commander in another room, and Winchester Black Talons in my Officers Mdl 45 in my truck. No Sir! I ain't paranoid! <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" /> For a home defense Luger, I would opt for Black Talon, Golden Saber, or Hydra Shock if it will shoot them reliably. [img]cool.gif[/img] __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

08-26-2002, 12:34 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Yup, those shotguns are your best bet. But I keep a 45 ACP revolver by the side of the bed loaded with hydroshocks. I would grab a Luger if I had too, but I believe they should fall down and quit fighting back and the 9 mm isn't always known to do that. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-26-2002, 12:39 AM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Hugh, I think he means the Library. [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-26-2002, 12:36 AM	#5
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hugh, Don't forget about the room where you are the most vulnerable and the most likely to get caught with your pants down.

08-26-2002, 02:37 AM	#7
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 166 Times in 65 Posts	Johnny, That's where the Browning HP is! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> Luke, That's where the S&W 357 Mag I forgot to mention is! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

08-26-2002, 08:27 AM	#8
JuergenG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 155 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Politically incorrect in my country also. We are supposed to talk these buddies to surrender. Other than that, the Rem 870 Marine would do a good job, IMHO. Juergen

08-26-2002, 09:04 AM	#9
hermit User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: canada Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A little off topic here but I believe canada is well on it's way to do just those 4 things. Hard to believe that I soon may not be able to go hunting with his old man. The government here just passed off the responsibility to a private company, which has access to many of my most personal information. Criminal record; doesnt matter how minor; which prescription drugs I take and a lot of other things which I think is an invasion of my privacy. I wonder how many criminals in canada will have registered their weapons? I could rant on but it just makes me angrier. Sorry to post it here but do not let them get away with one bit of the crap they pulled here. If I thought this program would make it safer for police and civilians alike, I would be all for it. Thanks for letting me vent! <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

08-26-2002, 02:18 PM	#10
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hi Hermit, I'm Canadian too and I do beleive that C68 ( Gun Control Law of 1998 ) is a failure....it's my opinion as a CFC Certified Verifier, a Law Enforcement Officer, a firearms collector and a hunter.... And you're right on that one: Criminals dont registrer guns....last week at work we arrested 3 car thieves and one of them had a nice North American Arms 22 cal mini gun in his pockets: loaded with Federal hp's and sure enough NOT REGISTERED..... C68 has made it though for us collectors....4 inch LUGERS are now Prohibited weapons and cannot get their way in Canada....Very sad for us.... Now for that home defense stuff: Glock 19 w/ night sights loaded with an alternate selection of Glaser Safety Slugs/ Federal +P+ 115gr JHP's.....backup being a 12GA. pump w/ 000B tactical... kidvett [img]cool.gif[/img]

08-26-2002, 03:39 PM	#12
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by ichabod: <strong>Howdy ya'll ! I used to post on your forum as "gewher guy". I have a 1939 Soviet-capture P.08 I'm going to be using as a home defense weapon - anyone have any thoughts on ammo ?</strong><hr></blockquote> I would personally want a hollow point or soft nose bullet. My 1927 Argentine .45 ACP is loaded with Winchester Black Talons. Elsewhere in the house I have a Chinese Model 213 Tokarev in 9mm but have been thinking of using the .38 Super conversion kit I have. The chambers of both pistols are empty because I have a 4 year old granddaughter in the house. While she is already trained to never touch a gun for any reason, she can't work a slide because she doesn't have the strength... yet. The first consideration for your choice of ammunition is reliability. Be absolutely certain that your ammo will function with 100% reliability in your Luger. That's a tall order for a Luger when hollow points or soft nose bullets are involved. If you find such a load, my advice (opinion) is to leave the chamber empty purely for safety considerations. I don't think of the Luger as the best choice for a home defense pistol and if any of the above conditions can't be met, I'd seriously think of getting another gun for the purpose. Just my $.02

08-26-2002, 04:27 PM	#13
Heydrich Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My DWM Luger is my weapon of personal home defense by default. I live in a pretty densely populated living complex, so I am not going to fire one of K98 rifles with its FMJ rounds. The bullet would not stop till after it had gone through about two other units. And as far as anyone every having to use a handgun in home defense against some kind of quasi-mysterious stranger, here are the facts: According to the FBI, if you are a typical law-abiding adult white male in America, your chances of being randomly murdered by a complete “stranger” are extremely slim. You are much more likely to be assaulted and murdered by: a family member (including a spouse or ex-spouse), a co-worker, or a current or former “friend”. Very sobering.

08-26-2002, 05:42 PM	#14
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	Tacfoley, that's a very good summation of conditions in the majority of the UK. I held a British Firearm's License for a few years. I was authorized three handguns; a .22, a .38/.357 and a 9mm. My choices were a Colt Match Target Woodsman, a S&W 586 and a commercial CZ-75 with a deep, rich blue finish. This was before the CZ-75 could legally be imported for sale into the US. I later traded the Colt in for an Erma ESP-85. All three handguns are still in my possession. I also, of course, had a shotgun permit. To illustrate how differently the British viewed certain things, they expected a gun to be invisable to the public. I bought the Colt in London's Elephant & Castle station district. I put it in my briefcase and took the tube back to the train station where I caught the next train to Ipswich and then drove home. Silencers (suppressors) are completely legal. For reloaders, or home loaders as it was called there, the trick was to keep your assembled ammunition equal to or below your authorized limit. Have all the components you wished and as long as they were not assembled into a round, you were legal. I loaded for .38/.357, 9mm and two shotgun gauges. As I shot competitively for the Suffolk County Pistol Team, I reloaded and shot a lot. It was an experience of a lifetime and I met many outstanding individuals while there, including past Olympic competitors and those with an excellent chance of making the next team.

08-26-2002, 07:58 PM	#15
ichabod User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, heck ! Maybe I'll just take my remaining five rounds of S&B .30 Mauser and press my bolo broom into guard duty. It's blue has been replaced by gray but it's got a new bore (ala Redman) and all the springs have been replaced. Plus it's so damn ugly it's bound to scare off a few burglars <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" /> [img]biggrin.gif[/img] ! __________________ "No snowflake ever feels responsible for the avalanche." Haywood Yasumi

08-26-2002, 08:51 PM	#16
hermit User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: canada Posts: 51 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just another quick vent; I am glad to see that Kiddvett agrees with our new regs being a failure. Home defense here now would be a very touchy subject. How long would it take to get my 870 out of the gun safe and then unlock the seperately stored ammo? I also think there will soon be a lot more brazen criminal break ins if they know the people inside have no protection. We did have a fair law in place all ready with the FAC, but for some reason that was never monitored to my knowledge. The new regs have cost us millions and milions of dollars. I hope they come around soon as I dearly love all firearms and related sports but it is getting very hard to put up with the nonsense. Sorry guys; I'll stop this time! [img]redface.gif[/img]

08-26-2002, 09:00 PM	#17
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	It is my understanding that violent crime and burglary has drastically increased in Britain since the laws went into effect. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

08-26-2002, 10:52 PM	#18
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by tacfoley: <strong>Yo Doubs - I bet you bought the gun from Tom Collins, hey? Betcha glad you're in the USA , too...... tacfoley <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote> You're absolutely correct.... Tom Collins it was. A rather odd bird. I called before making the trip and he assured me he had what I was looking for. When I arrived, he couldn't find the MT Woodsman so he asked if I'd come back in an hour or two. I said I would and left. When I returned he said "I've got it here somewhere" and then took another 20 minutes trying to remember where he'd put it!! Someone once told me that he blew himself out of his shop into the street with black powder one day but that is only hearsay. I believe his nephew was a TV star in a cop series. I remember the show but not the name of it. I have great memories of my stay in England. I used to love going to the Richardson Brother's shop in Halesworth to look at their shotguns. Very nice Blokes they were and excellent gunsmiths. Take care, Doubs <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

08-26-2002, 11:29 PM	#19
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,634 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	I keep a 12 ga 20" double barrel stagecoach rabbit ear in the bedroom, a 12 ga Win. Mod 97 in the living room, a 12 ga Win Mod 12 in the den, and a 12 ga Rogers double barrel hanging in the hall. All with 00, all but one out of sight. But my best home defense is my ugly dog Buster, my mentally challenged hound dog Axel, and a very intelligent German Shepard stray mix named Girl Dog (she's a girl). I fenced in about four acres surrounding the house, they don't let anyone who doesn't belong around. Buster looks like a cut down bear, Axel is so dumb he isn't afraid of anything, and Girl Dog is just flat out intimidating when she gets fired up. Two pumps, two double barrels, all 12 ga, and three dogs. We sleep well. RK <img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" />

08-27-2002, 12:10 AM	#20
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 166 Times in 65 Posts	Roadkill, And I thought I was paranoid! [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*