1916 DWM

Tim · 06-17-2003, 10:46 PM

I picked up what I hope is my first "collector" Luger. I have a couple of shooters, but this one is my first crack at what I hope is a better grade of Luger. The pistol pictured below is a 1916 DWM. All parts match including the magazine and grip panels. Blueing is very good with a little wear on the high points of the sideplate and muzzle. Strawing looks better in the photos than it really is, probably 80% with some light freckling on the safety lever. I dont know why the grips look so shiny, they really look like plain old grips with no chip at the safety. The front strap is stamped with the number "24" in larger font than any other markings. I've been reading and asking questions here for some time and I am inviting commentary from the learned group.

Edward Tinker · 06-17-2003, 10:59 PM

Looks like a nice one Tim. The "24" can I see a picture of it?

Are there any Weimar rework stamps or proofs or only Imperial?

Ed

Pete Ebbink · 06-18-2003, 12:06 AM

Hey Tim,

I love your gun, but I really like your "dancing girl" alot, too...!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> [Edited by admin - JS]

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Ron Wood · 06-18-2003, 12:36 AM

Careful guys...this is a "G" rated forum.

Edward Tinker · 06-18-2003, 12:46 AM

Yes, I sent Tim a note...

Ed

Lugerdoc · 06-18-2003, 10:04 AM

Tim, From what I can tell from your photo, the grips appear to have had a coat of verathane or something applied, but with your dancing logo, it's HARD to concentrate on the pistol. "If I had a swing like that in my back yard, I wouldn't play in the sand box". TH

John Sabato · 06-18-2003, 11:44 AM

<img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" /> Sorry Tim, (and all you other avatar enthusiasts)... but Tim's selection of an avatar as Ron well stated - "Careful guys...this is a "G" rated forum" - is inappropriate for a "General" audience (all ages admitted) and I have removed it...

I will be happy to post a tasteful photo of Tim as his avatar if he has one he would like used.

To ALL, If you want to keep from having something you post censored by the site admin...Just keep this rule of thumb in mind about the posting of photographic as well as text material on this site...

If you wouldn't want to have to try and explain something you just posted to your 8 year old niece with her mother standing behind her watching and listening... then don't post it here.

That should keep everyone out of trouble...

Tim · 06-18-2003, 03:17 PM

My humble apologies for the avatar. I didn't think it was that risque, I stand corrected. John, I would appreciate it if you could post my photo as an avatar. I had posted one as a member of the rogues gallery, but must admit, I can't remember the web address. Again, apologies to all who were offended by my attempt at being cute.

Thor · 06-18-2003, 03:22 PM

I can vouch for Tim's integrity. He has always been a gentleman, and quite patient I might add, in my dealings with him as a client and Luger collector. I think he just made a slight error in judgement, heck .....we all have done that!

John Sabato · 06-18-2003, 03:24 PM

Thanks for understanding Tim, just send your current photo to me at Lugerforum@yahoo.com and I will size it properly and make it your avatar and post it in the Rogues Gallery too...

Thor · 06-18-2003, 03:46 PM

you mean this one? CLICK here for Tim Phillips Picture

John Sabato · 06-18-2003, 03:53 PM

Tim Phillips avatar has been updated! Thanks Thor...

Tim · 06-18-2003, 06:24 PM

Thanks to both John and Thor. I will post a picture of the "24" on the front grip strap when I get home from work so that the good Mr. Tinker can see if this is the same type of marking with which he is familiar. I don't believe this to be a unit mark, though the font is much like some I've seen. I don't know the significance of this and would appreciate input if anyone else does.

Stu · 06-18-2003, 06:37 PM

A great looking Luger from the pics. Certainly appears to be 'collector' quality, you're a lucky man Tim.

Tim · 06-18-2003, 07:45 PM

Here's a picture of the front of the grip strap just as it begins to curve into the trigger guard. The "24" is high up, actually onto the curving part of the trigger guard. It looks contemporary to the other proof stampings, the "2" appears double struck. I haven't seen a mark here (or heard of one being discussed on this forum) before. My photo skills leave something to be desired, but I tried to crop this to get it to the less than 180K size and still show just where this is. Any ideas gentlemen?

Edward Tinker · 06-18-2003, 08:36 PM

No Tim, my marking is on the front of the trigger guard!

Let me look through my books, and hey, it was great talking to you,

Ed

Roadkill · 06-18-2003, 10:03 PM

Very nice gun, congratulations! Reference the #24,
looking at Mr Shattuck's showroom indicates the best way to store a Luger is toggle down with grip in the air, grip strap or trigger guard numbers would be the easiest way to do an inventory without actually having to pick the gun up to read the sn. This obviously wasn't a standard practice but chances are some enterprising supply NCO did it to make inventory quicker. (I have the sns of the 50 03A3 drill rifles in my arms room written on tape on the stocks where I can walk thru with the property book and check them without taking them out of the rack)

rk

saxman · 06-18-2003, 10:51 PM

So, how do you know it's a 1916?

Lugerdoc · 06-19-2003, 10:52 AM

Tim, I think that Roadkill is correct in his calling your #24 an inverntory number. I've also hear these refered to as "rack" numbers and they are sometimes struck on the rear of the frame, just above the lanyard loop. So I guess it depended on how the PO8s were stored, where the marks were applied. This was certainly not an official mandated marking, so any rules as to location and size, don't apply.

Tim · 06-19-2003, 04:10 PM

Saxman,
It has a chamber date of 1916.
The idea of the 24 being an inventory number of some sort seems logical. Thanks to all.

06-17-2003, 10:46 PM	#1
Tim User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Great North Woods of Wisconsin Posts: 100 Thanks: 7 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	1916 DWM I picked up what I hope is my first "collector" Luger. I have a couple of shooters, but this one is my first crack at what I hope is a better grade of Luger. The pistol pictured below is a 1916 DWM. All parts match including the magazine and grip panels. Blueing is very good with a little wear on the high points of the sideplate and muzzle. Strawing looks better in the photos than it really is, probably 80% with some light freckling on the safety lever. I dont know why the grips look so shiny, they really look like plain old grips with no chip at the safety. The front strap is stamped with the number "24" in larger font than any other markings. I've been reading and asking questions here for some time and I am inviting commentary from the learned group. __________________ The intent of the second amendment was not to allow the private ownership of firearms. If it had been it would have said something like "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"...

06-18-2003, 12:36 AM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,051 Thanks: 1,119 Thanked 5,286 Times in 1,728 Posts	Careful guys...this is a "G" rated forum. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-18-2003, 12:46 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	Yes, I sent Tim a note... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-18-2003, 10:04 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Tim, From what I can tell from your photo, the grips appear to have had a coat of verathane or something applied, but with your dancing logo, it's HARD to concentrate on the pistol. "If I had a swing like that in my back yard, I wouldn't play in the sand box". TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

06-18-2003, 11:44 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	<img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" /> Sorry Tim, (and all you other avatar enthusiasts)... but Tim's selection of an avatar as Ron well stated - "Careful guys...this is a "G" rated forum" - is inappropriate for a "General" audience (all ages admitted) and I have removed it... I will be happy to post a tasteful photo of Tim as his avatar if he has one he would like used. To ALL, If you want to keep from having something you post censored by the site admin...Just keep this rule of thumb in mind about the posting of photographic as well as text material on this site... If you wouldn't want to have to try and explain something you just posted to your 8 year old niece with her mother standing behind her watching and listening... then don't post it here. That should keep everyone out of trouble... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-17-2003, 10:59 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	Looks like a nice one Tim. The "24" can I see a picture of it? Are there any Weimar rework stamps or proofs or only Imperial? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-18-2003, 12:06 AM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Hey Tim, I love your gun, but I really like your "dancing girl" alot, too...!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> [Edited by admin - JS] Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

06-18-2003, 03:17 PM	#8
Tim User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Great North Woods of Wisconsin Posts: 100 Thanks: 7 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	My humble apologies for the avatar. I didn't think it was that risque, I stand corrected. John, I would appreciate it if you could post my photo as an avatar. I had posted one as a member of the rogues gallery, but must admit, I can't remember the web address. Again, apologies to all who were offended by my attempt at being cute. __________________ The intent of the second amendment was not to allow the private ownership of firearms. If it had been it would have said something like "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"...

06-18-2003, 03:22 PM	#9
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 971 Times in 277 Posts	I can vouch for Tim's integrity. He has always been a gentleman, and quite patient I might add, in my dealings with him as a client and Luger collector. I think he just made a slight error in judgement, heck .....we all have done that! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

06-18-2003, 03:24 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	Thanks for understanding Tim, just send your current photo to me at Lugerforum@yahoo.com and I will size it properly and make it your avatar and post it in the Rogues Gallery too... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-18-2003, 03:46 PM	#11
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 971 Times in 277 Posts	you mean this one? CLICK here for Tim Phillips Picture __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

06-18-2003, 03:53 PM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	Tim Phillips avatar has been updated! Thanks Thor... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-18-2003, 06:24 PM	#13
Tim User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Great North Woods of Wisconsin Posts: 100 Thanks: 7 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks to both John and Thor. I will post a picture of the "24" on the front grip strap when I get home from work so that the good Mr. Tinker can see if this is the same type of marking with which he is familiar. I don't believe this to be a unit mark, though the font is much like some I've seen. I don't know the significance of this and would appreciate input if anyone else does. __________________ The intent of the second amendment was not to allow the private ownership of firearms. If it had been it would have said something like "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"...

06-18-2003, 06:37 PM	#14
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	A great looking Luger from the pics. Certainly appears to be 'collector' quality, you're a lucky man Tim.

06-18-2003, 07:45 PM	#15
Tim User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Great North Woods of Wisconsin Posts: 100 Thanks: 7 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Here's a picture of the front of the grip strap just as it begins to curve into the trigger guard. The "24" is high up, actually onto the curving part of the trigger guard. It looks contemporary to the other proof stampings, the "2" appears double struck. I haven't seen a mark here (or heard of one being discussed on this forum) before. My photo skills leave something to be desired, but I tried to crop this to get it to the less than 180K size and still show just where this is. Any ideas gentlemen? __________________ The intent of the second amendment was not to allow the private ownership of firearms. If it had been it would have said something like "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"...

06-18-2003, 08:36 PM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	No Tim, my marking is on the front of the trigger guard! Let me look through my books, and hey, it was great talking to you, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-18-2003, 10:03 PM	#17
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,634 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Very nice gun, congratulations! Reference the #24, looking at Mr Shattuck's showroom indicates the best way to store a Luger is toggle down with grip in the air, grip strap or trigger guard numbers would be the easiest way to do an inventory without actually having to pick the gun up to read the sn. This obviously wasn't a standard practice but chances are some enterprising supply NCO did it to make inventory quicker. (I have the sns of the 50 03A3 drill rifles in my arms room written on tape on the stocks where I can walk thru with the property book and check them without taking them out of the rack) rk

06-18-2003, 10:51 PM	#18
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So, how do you know it's a 1916? __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

06-19-2003, 10:52 AM	#19
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Tim, I think that Roadkill is correct in his calling your #24 an inverntory number. I've also hear these refered to as "rack" numbers and they are sometimes struck on the rear of the frame, just above the lanyard loop. So I guess it depended on how the PO8s were stored, where the marks were applied. This was certainly not an official mandated marking, so any rules as to location and size, don't apply. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

06-19-2003, 04:10 PM	#20
Tim User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Great North Woods of Wisconsin Posts: 100 Thanks: 7 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Saxman, It has a chamber date of 1916. The idea of the 24 being an inventory number of some sort seems logical. Thanks to all. __________________ The intent of the second amendment was not to allow the private ownership of firearms. If it had been it would have said something like "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"...