Strawed, No Hump...

Pete Ebbink · 10-09-2004, 12:36 PM

If anyone is looking to add a 1937 strawed Mauser without the hump :

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976514901.htm

Photo provided looks promising...I would e-mail and ask for more photos...

George Anderson · 10-10-2004, 06:38 AM

Pete, the wording of your heading sounds somewhat like an unsuccessful boys' night on the town.

Ron Smith · 10-10-2004, 08:39 AM

Geo, Sounds like the story of my life.

Ron

drbuster · 10-10-2004, 10:21 AM

Correct me if I am wrong, but I was of the understanding that the hump didn't appear until the second variation of 1937 when the straw parts started to be blued. Earlier humps were interspersed with the "K" dates but "G" dates, 1936's and first variation 1937 had no humps.

Frank · 10-10-2004, 11:15 AM

Hi Doc, there were a few 1937 Mauser Lugers that had strawed parts AND a Mauser Hump!! As you know, the 1937 Strawed Part Lugers ended in the very early T-Block. These unusual Hump/Strawed 1937s are usually found in the late S-Block and Early T-Block. It was thought to have been caused by the use of the later frame, but before the Germans went to the Hot Dip Blue Process.

These are considered an odd-ball variation, albeit a genuine one!!

tracyp · 10-10-2004, 10:09 PM

I have a 1937 with strawed parts and no hump. It's has a q suffix. According to Still's book, serial numbers 4500p - 1500t had strawed parts. Serial number 1500t - 400b had blued.

Tracy

Pete Ebbink · 10-12-2004, 12:26 PM

Here are a couple of photos the seller sent me. Told him I would post on the LF...

(I have no other connection with the sale of this gun.) Just thought it looked very promising...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

John Sabato · 10-12-2004, 12:42 PM

It is almost comical to me when a seller writes SN 36XX and then uses a photograph that clearly shows the last two digits of the serial number <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

(Not talking about you Pete!)

Frankp · 10-12-2004, 01:05 PM

This may seem a dumb question, but I've seen other auctions where the seller leaves the last two numbers off, is there a reason for this ?

John Sabato · 10-12-2004, 02:22 PM

Hi Frankp,

Just like anything else, the Ã¢??dumbÃ¢?? questions are the ones that don't get asked... This is a good one worth repeating for you and others.

Because of the common mistake of thinking that a Luger serial number only consists of numbers... there are folks that believe that if they display a gun in photos or in such a way that the serial number shows... or talk about it in a public place or forum or trade magazine, they have somehow compromised their claim to ownership... and may subject themselves to fraudulent claims that the gun is stolen.

For this reason, they only discuss the gun's serial number by using xx's for the last few digits. A practice that is often negated by posting un-sanitized photos such as in this case.

Some of this thinking has to do with the fact that a great many of these guns entered the USA decades ago in the hands of returning veterans and without any formal ownership documentation.

In reality, because of the way Lugers were serialized, the serial numbers repeat... and there will be many with the same serial number. What actually distinguishes one Luger from another is the small alphabetic character that is under the serial number on the front of the frame near the trigger guard, -AND- the year that it was manufactured.

The gun above is a good example... this gunÃ¢??s serial number as determined by what is written on the photograph is that this gun was made in 1937 and the SN 36xx and the last two digits appear on multiple parts in the photo itself. So the serial number is actually 3672... but what we donÃ¢??t know is the letter series that is an integral part of the number.

Since most military Lugers have a 4 digit serial number, and the first 9999 of a years production have no character, the second 9999 have the letter Ã¢??aÃ¢??, and so forth until the year is over, or they reach # 9999 Ã¢??zÃ¢??.

Armed with this information we can consult one of the published Luger references and determine that in the year 1937, it is estimated that between 120,000 and 127,000 Lugers were produced by Mauser. So the series could have repeated at least 12 times and if we had all the Lugers that were marked as made in 1937, and serial number 3672, there would be twelve of them.... the only distinguishing mark would be the letter suffix to the serial number.

So if a legitimate police report existed in the National Crime Information Center that a Luger, SN 3672 was a stolen firearm, there could be possibly 12 Lugers in the USA that would be considered stolen...

All that verbiage above was to explain why some folks are reluctant to display or make known the serial number of their Luger or other firearm.

How do you protect yourself? ALWAYS get a bill of sale that is witnessed. On the bill of sale, make sure you have the name, address, and SSN or drivers license number of the person you bought it from, and of the person who witnessed the sale. Make sure that the FULL description of the gun includes the manufacturing code (S/42 in this instance), the year of manufacture (1937), and the full serial number including the letter suffix if it has one... Also record whether or not any parts that may have been replaced do not match the serial number... If you look in the Old OwnerÃ¢??s Corner, in the folder with my last name on it, you will see an Artillery Luger that is made up of several parts of different guns...

If you report a Luger stolen, make sure you report ALL this information to prevent 11 other Luger owners some possible grief in the future...

Now that I have explained all that, let me state that full serial number disclosure is not an issue for me since I have the documentation I have described above for my Lugers.

I trust that this explanation has been clear enough to be helpful to you, and any other new folks that may read it.

Ron Wood · 10-12-2004, 02:38 PM

John,
There is another reason for not publishing the full serial number of a Luger which was brought about largely by dealers. Unscrupulous individuals upon learning the full serial number of a piece that was offered for sale on a dealer's list would purchase it and then return it before the 3-day inspection period had elapsed. But only after they had stripped off and replaced the all small parts that they needed to make one of their Lugers all matching. They ended up with a "matched" Luger and the dealer ended up with a parts gun.

John Sabato · 10-12-2004, 03:00 PM

Those folks Ron, are people without HONOR... but you are absolutely correct. I think that any gun sold over the internet should have a couple of dozen quality photos taken of it showing it's condition. These photos should accompany the gun during the 3 day inspection, and the gun must match the condition in the photos to be returned... or criminal legal proceedings should follow. The same should occur in the return direction.

Motown · 10-14-2004, 08:33 AM

OK, another 'stupid' question- define the 'hump'.

It's been my experience that the adage, 'there are no stupid questions' is simply not true- I've hear plenty of them....

Thor · 10-14-2004, 08:37 AM

Motown, check out this link and you will see pictures and a description of the Mauser Hump.
Mauser Hump Thread CLICK HERE

Motown · 10-14-2004, 08:57 AM

Thanks.

drbuster · 10-14-2004, 09:24 AM

Frank, Thanks for your input. I will look for "s" and "t" block 1937's. I just cannot understand why groups of "K" dates had the hump, then no more until 1937. Was it an experiment that went bad only to "go good" again three years later? Mauser obviously thought it was a good idea after 1937!

10-09-2004, 12:36 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Strawed, No Hump... If anyone is looking to add a 1937 strawed Mauser without the hump : http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976514901.htm Photo provided looks promising...I would e-mail and ask for more photos...

10-10-2004, 08:39 AM	#3
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Geo, Sounds like the story of my life. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

10-12-2004, 12:42 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	It is almost comical to me when a seller writes SN 36XX and then uses a photograph that clearly shows the last two digits of the serial number <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> (Not talking about you Pete!) __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-12-2004, 01:05 PM	#9
Frankp User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: St Charles MO Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This may seem a dumb question, but I've seen other auctions where the seller leaves the last two numbers off, is there a reason for this ? __________________ Frank

10-12-2004, 02:22 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Hi Frankp, Just like anything else, the Ã¢??dumbÃ¢?? questions are the ones that don't get asked... This is a good one worth repeating for you and others. Because of the common mistake of thinking that a Luger serial number only consists of numbers... there are folks that believe that if they display a gun in photos or in such a way that the serial number shows... or talk about it in a public place or forum or trade magazine, they have somehow compromised their claim to ownership... and may subject themselves to fraudulent claims that the gun is stolen. For this reason, they only discuss the gun's serial number by using xx's for the last few digits. A practice that is often negated by posting un-sanitized photos such as in this case. Some of this thinking has to do with the fact that a great many of these guns entered the USA decades ago in the hands of returning veterans and without any formal ownership documentation. In reality, because of the way Lugers were serialized, the serial numbers repeat... and there will be many with the same serial number. What actually distinguishes one Luger from another is the small alphabetic character that is under the serial number on the front of the frame near the trigger guard, -AND- the year that it was manufactured. The gun above is a good example... this gunÃ¢??s serial number as determined by what is written on the photograph is that this gun was made in 1937 and the SN 36xx and the last two digits appear on multiple parts in the photo itself. So the serial number is actually 3672... but what we donÃ¢??t know is the letter series that is an integral part of the number. Since most military Lugers have a 4 digit serial number, and the first 9999 of a years production have no character, the second 9999 have the letter Ã¢??aÃ¢??, and so forth until the year is over, or they reach # 9999 Ã¢??zÃ¢??. Armed with this information we can consult one of the published Luger references and determine that in the year 1937, it is estimated that between 120,000 and 127,000 Lugers were produced by Mauser. So the series could have repeated at least 12 times and if we had all the Lugers that were marked as made in 1937, and serial number 3672, there would be twelve of them.... the only distinguishing mark would be the letter suffix to the serial number. So if a legitimate police report existed in the National Crime Information Center that a Luger, SN 3672 was a stolen firearm, there could be possibly 12 Lugers in the USA that would be considered stolen... All that verbiage above was to explain why some folks are reluctant to display or make known the serial number of their Luger or other firearm. How do you protect yourself? ALWAYS get a bill of sale that is witnessed. On the bill of sale, make sure you have the name, address, and SSN or drivers license number of the person you bought it from, and of the person who witnessed the sale. Make sure that the FULL description of the gun includes the manufacturing code (S/42 in this instance), the year of manufacture (1937), and the full serial number including the letter suffix if it has one... Also record whether or not any parts that may have been replaced do not match the serial number... If you look in the Old OwnerÃ¢??s Corner, in the folder with my last name on it, you will see an Artillery Luger that is made up of several parts of different guns... If you report a Luger stolen, make sure you report ALL this information to prevent 11 other Luger owners some possible grief in the future... Now that I have explained all that, let me state that full serial number disclosure is not an issue for me since I have the documentation I have described above for my Lugers. I trust that this explanation has been clear enough to be helpful to you, and any other new folks that may read it. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-10-2004, 06:38 AM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Pete, the wording of your heading sounds somewhat like an unsuccessful boys' night on the town.

10-10-2004, 10:21 AM	#4
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Correct me if I am wrong, but I was of the understanding that the hump didn't appear until the second variation of 1937 when the straw parts started to be blued. Earlier humps were interspersed with the "K" dates but "G" dates, 1936's and first variation 1937 had no humps.

10-10-2004, 11:15 AM	#5
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Doc, there were a few 1937 Mauser Lugers that had strawed parts AND a Mauser Hump!! As you know, the 1937 Strawed Part Lugers ended in the very early T-Block. These unusual Hump/Strawed 1937s are usually found in the late S-Block and Early T-Block. It was thought to have been caused by the use of the later frame, but before the Germans went to the Hot Dip Blue Process. These are considered an odd-ball variation, albeit a genuine one!!

10-10-2004, 10:09 PM	#6
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I have a 1937 with strawed parts and no hump. It's has a q suffix. According to Still's book, serial numbers 4500p - 1500t had strawed parts. Serial number 1500t - 400b had blued. Tracy

10-12-2004, 12:26 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Here are a couple of photos the seller sent me. Told him I would post on the LF... (I have no other connection with the sale of this gun.) Just thought it looked very promising... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

10-12-2004, 02:38 PM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	John, There is another reason for not publishing the full serial number of a Luger which was brought about largely by dealers. Unscrupulous individuals upon learning the full serial number of a piece that was offered for sale on a dealer's list would purchase it and then return it before the 3-day inspection period had elapsed. But only after they had stripped off and replaced the all small parts that they needed to make one of their Lugers all matching. They ended up with a "matched" Luger and the dealer ended up with a parts gun. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-12-2004, 03:00 PM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Those folks Ron, are people without HONOR... but you are absolutely correct. I think that any gun sold over the internet should have a couple of dozen quality photos taken of it showing it's condition. These photos should accompany the gun during the 3 day inspection, and the gun must match the condition in the photos to be returned... or criminal legal proceedings should follow. The same should occur in the return direction. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-14-2004, 08:33 AM	#13
Motown User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Double Oak, TX Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, another 'stupid' question- define the 'hump'. It's been my experience that the adage, 'there are no stupid questions' is simply not true- I've hear plenty of them.... __________________ "Avoid excessive sharpness or harshness of voice, which usually indicates the man who has shortcomings of his own to hide." --Field Marshall Erwin Rommel

10-14-2004, 08:37 AM	#14
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Motown, check out this link and you will see pictures and a description of the Mauser Hump. Mauser Hump Thread CLICK HERE __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-14-2004, 08:57 AM	#15
Motown User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Double Oak, TX Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks. __________________ "Avoid excessive sharpness or harshness of voice, which usually indicates the man who has shortcomings of his own to hide." --Field Marshall Erwin Rommel

10-14-2004, 09:24 AM	#16
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Frank, Thanks for your input. I will look for "s" and "t" block 1937's. I just cannot understand why groups of "K" dates had the hump, then no more until 1937. Was it an experiment that went bad only to "go good" again three years later? Mauser obviously thought it was a good idea after 1937!