DWM matching numbers

monk69 · 08-21-2003, 08:47 PM

I'm looking at purchasing a 1915 DWM Luger rig with supposedly all matching part numbers. The problem is that the main toggle axle pin and the firing pin are unnumbered, while the hold open, grips and all the other normally numbered parts are. I've read where DWM did not always stamp the axle pin and other internal parts and I'm wondering if that may be the case with the one I'm looking at. The guns a good 95% overall, with an excellent bore, AND it's got both matching magazines AND a holster numbered to the gun also. Is it a righteous (all matching) piece or does the lack of those two parts being numbered make it close but not all matching. Any insights from this knowledable group would be greatly appreciated.

Roadkill · 08-21-2003, 09:00 PM

Toggle pins for that year - think so but experts need to comment. Firing pin should have last two of sn. Does the firing pin have a groove cut along its length or is it smooth? And just being on the cautious side, 95% 1915s are not common, and even less so with two magazines and a numbered holster to match. Don't want to rain on your parade but you aren't comfortable with it or you wouldn't be asking. How much and can you post photos?

rk

Luke · 08-21-2003, 09:16 PM

Roadkill is correct. The toggle pin should NOT be numbered on a 1915 DWM, but the firing pin should have the last two digits of the serial number.

Also, I would look closely at the two matching magazines.

Luke

George Anderson · 08-22-2003, 12:00 AM

I would calm down. Check the firing pin very closely, it may well be marked; I have seen so many that were obscured by cosmoline type lubricants. Also WWI w/two matching mags, it should be in a holster that will probably be half shot, how else does the extra mag stay with the gun for so many years. Next, where did you get it and what did you pay? If it came out of some Granny's attic or you paid a low price for it ($300-700), it's probably the real deal despite the firing pin. If you paid some yankee at a gunshow $1000 or more then you may need to hide all this info from your wife and just suck it up.

Lugerdoc · 08-22-2003, 09:48 AM

Monk, WW1 military holsters were not commonly numbered to a PO8, whereas Weimar Police rigs were; usually in the upper right hand corner of the back. Quite often, the Police would also add a "matching" mag of various types to these rigs, which will usually have numbers of a larger die set than the WW1 military. without any suffix letter, and usually with a 1,2 or 3 stamped above the serial. If this is a police rig, it may also have a unit marking on the front grip strap and/or sear or mag safety added. A Police rig with 2 matching mags, is a lot more common than a straight WW1 military. TH

monk69 · 08-22-2003, 11:19 AM

OOOPPPS ----- the firing pin is numbered. It is also not fluted, it's smooth. My 95% may be a little liberal since I'm not including the loss of strawing. Strawing is about 10% at best. It's not a police model. The mags are far from pristine, the bottoms have nicked edges, some chipping and a long scratch. They are properly marked with the number, suffix and with a + on the spare. The holster's magazine pouch is well worn to the point of almost being worn through. The number on the holster is at the front lower left hand side of the top flap. But a pictures worth a thousand words. I will post some this weekend if I can figure out how to do it.

Luke · 08-22-2003, 05:25 PM

Monk -

Please do post pictures. Glad to hear that you found the firing pin number. Sounds as if this Luger is completely honest. Congratulations.

Luke

monk69 · 08-22-2003, 05:58 PM

All, I posted a link to the web site where the pictures reside under a seperate topic heading - 1915DWM rig - picture link.
Let me know what you think.

Monk, this is the neat thing about these links, you can move them around show the same pictures if you'd liek to.
Here are the pictures,
ED:

Edward Tinker · 08-22-2003, 06:25 PM

Monk, I copied your pictures here, nice gun,

Ed

Roadkill · 08-24-2003, 02:38 PM

Very nice gun.

rk

monk69 · 08-25-2003, 02:25 PM

Well, I sprung and purchased it. I'm sure there are nicer ones out there but none that I could find even close to the $1500.00 this has set me back. If it's not an honest piece, someone went through a lot of trouble and did one heck of a job recreating one. I appreciate everyones input and George,your right, if this isn't the real deal I'll need to tell the "Boss" another little white lie on what I paid. Though,It wouldn't be the first time I deflated my actual cost when asked ---"well, what did you pay for this old thing".

Edward Tinker · 08-25-2003, 02:29 PM

GREAT!

Just keep the "white lie" to the face, have REAL costs in an excel document, reason I say this, I was on gunboards and this guy said his friend suddenly passed away, had all of his guns listed at half the value in case the Mrs., was curious, well he died and guess what values she sold all of his guns for...

Not that I've EVER <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> done a white lie about prices to my wife...

George Anderson · 08-25-2003, 05:54 PM

BIG MISTAKE. You must only lie about what you paid for it never what it's worth. "Consider the children" as Bill and Hillary would have said. The real secret is to get it into the house without them knowing it's new.

Give the gun and holster or pouch to a friend before leaving town for a few days. Have your friend drop by and give it your wife telling her he is returning your gun. She will take it to your gun room for you and never give it another thought. This works not only once but repeatedly. It also works with cased English double guns. It seems they lose count beyond five.

Roadkill · 08-25-2003, 06:08 PM

Three other successful methods:

When you have another one and its noticed, never show any interest in it. Fawning, gazing, caressing, and especially drooling are dead give aways. If directly asked, show the same emotion and facial expressions as a pro poker player.

Never let her see all of them at once. To her a gun is a gun is a gun. Don't be a dumb a** and drag them all out for admiration thus providing her the occasion to make a definitive count.

In the gun business and in this area only, the omission of the complete truth is acceptable. Never lie, they know us too well to get away with that. But nothing says you have to tell the whole truth.

rk

Edward Tinker · 08-25-2003, 06:19 PM

ahhh, good ones George and RK.

One guy said that he would take a rifle (pistol case would work too), and say he is going "shooting" that afternoon. Of course it is empty and he came home with a new gun. You can then either "clean" it in front of her, or say, "didn't make it to the range today honey, will go next week"!, and take the new one to the gun room.

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Ed

George Anderson · 08-25-2003, 10:19 PM

As in the Black Arts, the key is to have her bring it across the threshold. It cleanses the whole situation and gives you a really cool rise.

08-21-2003, 08:47 PM	#1
monk69 User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	DWM matching numbers I'm looking at purchasing a 1915 DWM Luger rig with supposedly all matching part numbers. The problem is that the main toggle axle pin and the firing pin are unnumbered, while the hold open, grips and all the other normally numbered parts are. I've read where DWM did not always stamp the axle pin and other internal parts and I'm wondering if that may be the case with the one I'm looking at. The guns a good 95% overall, with an excellent bore, AND it's got both matching magazines AND a holster numbered to the gun also. Is it a righteous (all matching) piece or does the lack of those two parts being numbered make it close but not all matching. Any insights from this knowledable group would be greatly appreciated.

08-21-2003, 09:16 PM	#3
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Roadkill is correct. The toggle pin should NOT be numbered on a 1915 DWM, but the firing pin should have the last two digits of the serial number. Also, I would look closely at the two matching magazines. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

08-22-2003, 09:48 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Monk, WW1 military holsters were not commonly numbered to a PO8, whereas Weimar Police rigs were; usually in the upper right hand corner of the back. Quite often, the Police would also add a "matching" mag of various types to these rigs, which will usually have numbers of a larger die set than the WW1 military. without any suffix letter, and usually with a 1,2 or 3 stamped above the serial. If this is a police rig, it may also have a unit marking on the front grip strap and/or sear or mag safety added. A Police rig with 2 matching mags, is a lot more common than a straight WW1 military. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-22-2003, 05:25 PM	#7
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Monk - Please do post pictures. Glad to hear that you found the firing pin number. Sounds as if this Luger is completely honest. Congratulations. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

08-22-2003, 06:25 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	Monk, I copied your pictures here, nice gun, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-21-2003, 09:00 PM	#2
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,634 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Toggle pins for that year - think so but experts need to comment. Firing pin should have last two of sn. Does the firing pin have a groove cut along its length or is it smooth? And just being on the cautious side, 95% 1915s are not common, and even less so with two magazines and a numbered holster to match. Don't want to rain on your parade but you aren't comfortable with it or you wouldn't be asking. How much and can you post photos? rk

08-22-2003, 12:00 AM	#4
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	I would calm down. Check the firing pin very closely, it may well be marked; I have seen so many that were obscured by cosmoline type lubricants. Also WWI w/two matching mags, it should be in a holster that will probably be half shot, how else does the extra mag stay with the gun for so many years. Next, where did you get it and what did you pay? If it came out of some Granny's attic or you paid a low price for it ($300-700), it's probably the real deal despite the firing pin. If you paid some yankee at a gunshow $1000 or more then you may need to hide all this info from your wife and just suck it up.

08-22-2003, 11:19 AM	#6
monk69 User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OOOPPPS ----- the firing pin is numbered. It is also not fluted, it's smooth. My 95% may be a little liberal since I'm not including the loss of strawing. Strawing is about 10% at best. It's not a police model. The mags are far from pristine, the bottoms have nicked edges, some chipping and a long scratch. They are properly marked with the number, suffix and with a + on the spare. The holster's magazine pouch is well worn to the point of almost being worn through. The number on the holster is at the front lower left hand side of the top flap. But a pictures worth a thousand words. I will post some this weekend if I can figure out how to do it.

08-22-2003, 05:58 PM	#8
monk69 User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	All, I posted a link to the web site where the pictures reside under a seperate topic heading - 1915DWM rig - picture link. Let me know what you think. Monk, this is the neat thing about these links, you can move them around show the same pictures if you'd liek to. Here are the pictures, ED:

08-24-2003, 02:38 PM	#10
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,634 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Very nice gun. rk

08-25-2003, 02:25 PM	#11
monk69 User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, I sprung and purchased it. I'm sure there are nicer ones out there but none that I could find even close to the $1500.00 this has set me back. If it's not an honest piece, someone went through a lot of trouble and did one heck of a job recreating one. I appreciate everyones input and George,your right, if this isn't the real deal I'll need to tell the "Boss" another little white lie on what I paid. Though,It wouldn't be the first time I deflated my actual cost when asked ---"well, what did you pay for this old thing".

08-25-2003, 02:29 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	GREAT! Just keep the "white lie" to the face, have REAL costs in an excel document, reason I say this, I was on gunboards and this guy said his friend suddenly passed away, had all of his guns listed at half the value in case the Mrs., was curious, well he died and guess what values she sold all of his guns for... Not that I've EVER <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> done a white lie about prices to my wife... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-25-2003, 05:54 PM	#13
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	BIG MISTAKE. You must only lie about what you paid for it never what it's worth. "Consider the children" as Bill and Hillary would have said. The real secret is to get it into the house without them knowing it's new. Give the gun and holster or pouch to a friend before leaving town for a few days. Have your friend drop by and give it your wife telling her he is returning your gun. She will take it to your gun room for you and never give it another thought. This works not only once but repeatedly. It also works with cased English double guns. It seems they lose count beyond five.

08-25-2003, 06:08 PM	#14
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,634 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Three other successful methods: When you have another one and its noticed, never show any interest in it. Fawning, gazing, caressing, and especially drooling are dead give aways. If directly asked, show the same emotion and facial expressions as a pro poker player. Never let her see all of them at once. To her a gun is a gun is a gun. Don't be a dumb a** and drag them all out for admiration thus providing her the occasion to make a definitive count. In the gun business and in this area only, the omission of the complete truth is acceptable. Never lie, they know us too well to get away with that. But nothing says you have to tell the whole truth. rk

08-25-2003, 06:19 PM	#15
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	ahhh, good ones George and RK. One guy said that he would take a rifle (pistol case would work too), and say he is going "shooting" that afternoon. Of course it is empty and he came home with a new gun. You can then either "clean" it in front of her, or say, "didn't make it to the range today honey, will go next week"!, and take the new one to the gun room. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-25-2003, 10:19 PM	#16
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	As in the Black Arts, the key is to have her bring it across the threshold. It cleanses the whole situation and gives you a really cool rise.