Kü 4258

[Oldreb]

I recently had the good fortune to acquire Kü4258 -- a 41 / byf which is all parts matching except for the FXO / Eagle 37 aluminum base magazine. The condition is original at 95% . The breechblock is 42 code and the thumb safety is S42 code. All expected Kü Luftwaffe proofs and marks are present and properly located. There are some old pry marks on the take down lever most likely the result of a misguided dis-assembly attempt. This Kü is pictured on page 101 in the book "Third Reich Lugers" by Jan C. Still. Pictures for reference are attached.

Best Regards,
Wayne

[Oldreb]

Additional Reference Pictures

[alanint]

I would love to know more about the presence of the "S42" on an otherwise matching-numbered safety.

An armorer's replacement would probably not have been also matched with such small font.

[Sergio Natali]

Wayne

Congratulations, I remember you were looking for a "Ku" Luger!
I'm really very happy for you, very good score, it's absolutly a keeper.
Have a nice Sunday.

[Lugerdoc]

Alan, it makes sense to me that just about any parts of a Ku Luger could be Mauser spare parts marked, since these were assembled from left-over Mauser parts, when they switched over to P38 production. TH

[Oldreb]

alanint, I cannot offer much in the way of an explanation as to the dual marks on the thumb safety. Not sure which came first -- or were they stamped at the same time. I have attached a couple of pictures of a similarly marked (42 / 89) thumb safety that is on Kü3489.

Wayne

[Oldreb]

Sergio, thanks !! I'm very proud of it !! You have a good memory -- in fact I think you were the first Forum member I mentioned to that I was looking for a Kü !! I find them to be right interesting !!

Best Regards,
Wayne

[Oldreb]

Lugerdoc, thank you for you comment -- very much in line with my thinking about Kü's . In my way of thinking it seems the thumb safety would have been already stamped S42 and then was stamped with the "58" -- perhaps to keep it with the group of already marked "58" parts before it's final assembly. Just my very elementary assumption.

Thanks,
Wayne

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Oldreb

I recently had the good fortune to acquire Kü4258...All expected Kü Luftwaffe proofs and marks are present and properly located...

Wayne -

I haven't kept up on Kü developments...Could you kindly post a link to where it was established that the Kü Lugers are Luftwaffe issue??? I would be interested in reading that/those threads - I'm sure others would also.

An interesting Luger!

Thank you for your pics!

[Oldreb]

sheepherder, thanks for your comment. I do not have a link to provide you with. In wording my original post I used the book Third Reich Lugers as my base source in an attempt to present what I was describing. The use of "Luftwaffe Proof " came from page 97. If my wording is misguided or taken out of context -- I stand corrected. The "unknowns" are very much part of the appeal of Kü's to me !!

Best Regards,
Wayne

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Oldreb

sheepherder, thanks for your comment. I do not have a link to provide you with.

Wayne, I don't have Jan's book. I had read the "Kü Klub" thread here over the last couple of years, I was under the impression the origin of the Kü was still under investigation. My apologies if it has been definitively defined.

[Sergio Natali]

Originally Posted by Oldreb

Sergio, thanks !! I'm very proud of it !! You have a good memory -- in fact I think you were the first Forum member I mentioned to that I was looking for a Kü !! I find them to be right interesting !!

Best Regards,
Wayne

Wayne,

A beautiful "Ku" LUGER to keep company to your gorgeous SPRINGFIELD ARMORY 1911 !

[guns3545]

From a logical standpoint, why would valuable LWaA resources inspect and accept arms that were not going to be used by a Luftwaffe component?.

Clearly not aircrews as the P.08 was not authorized to be used in aircraft after 1940. They had to use something else.

Flak units, numbering about a million men and Paratroopers, at least one division, security personnel etc. had a huge need unfulfilled by HK and Mauser. No more P.08s and the P.38 production was going to the Army.

We are pretty certain the HK cleaned house and was out of everything in 1944. And in any case, only made a couple of thousand P.08s after 1938 at most.

But there were plenty of repair depots, contract repair facilities, etc. And there were plenty of spare parts, left overs, etc. to support the last ditch war effort.

From our friends over on the K98 Forum, we know that the Luftwaffe was building/rebuilding K98s and were positioning inspectors, i.e. LWaA personnel at their locations.

A couple of these locations which could have used Ku as a mark have been investigated. Krugau is one of them. Used forced labor. Had LW inspectors. Could have been the location that gathered P.08 parts from all over, assembled and serialized them; had them inspected and accepted by the LW.

Remember, all that was required was maybe second stage and certainly final inspection. Part level inspection not needed because they were already in stock.

If you look at "righteous" KU's, they all comply with this theory.

We know that Krieghoff did not make these guns. Mauser certainly did not. Clearly the Luftwaffe was involved as evidenced by the LWaA acceptance stamps.

My two cents. And thanks to the KU committee and the guys at the K98 Forum all their work in the years past and even now.

John

[Oldreb]

Sergio -- once again you are on the money !! The Kü will end up being displayed with the Springfield. Working on a two gun display case -- gathering up some Unit patches, photo's etc. Will keep you posted !

Best Regards,
Wayne

[Oldreb]

John, thank you for your straight forward and insightful response. The Kü story has certainly evolved and while not completly "settled science" I firmly believe new evidence will be uncovered and the final puzzle pieces will be put into place.

Best Regards,
Wayne

[Oldreb]

sheepherder, thanks for your reply. Interesting that you referenced the Kü Club Meeting post as it was the one that really sparked my interest in the Kü's !! Certainly the Kü is not an "early" Luger but it does have an interesting story and by it's assembly composition provides a lot of variations within it's core "standards". Being a collector of Confederate relics I think also contributed to my interest in the Kü's as we relied heavily on "parts" weapons of all types --reworked battle field pickups, altered earlier peroid guns, guns manufactured from captured Yankee machinery, small work shops etc. etc. Not always first quality and matching -- but functional and effective !!

Best Regards,
Wayne

[derf0018]

Originally Posted by Oldreb

I recently had the good fortune to acquire Kü4258 -- a 41 / byf which is all parts matching except for the FXO / Eagle 37 aluminum base magazine. The condition is original at 95% . The breechblock is 42 code and the thumb safety is S42 code. All expected Kü Luftwaffe proofs and marks are present and properly located. There are some old pry marks on the take down lever most likely the result of a misguided dis-assembly attempt. This Kü is pictured on page 101 in the book "Third Reich Lugers" by Jan C. Still. Pictures for reference are attached.

Best Regards,
Wayne

Oldreb,
I believe that at one time you were thinking about the Ku serial
number Ku3489 from Legacy. I have been thinking about purchasing that gun, but wondered if you, or others on the forum,
had any questions about that Ku that was questionable.
I already have a Ku suffix and would like to add a Ku prefix.
Please let me know if you had any reservations about Ku3489.

Thank you - My e-mail is p38rotcelloc@hotmail.com

Fred

[GMD]

Nice detailed photos Wayne, and a great addition to your collection. A wonderful textbook Kü!

[Oldreb]

Thanks Gary -- I appreciate your comments !! No doubt I am very proud of it -- having a custom display box being built for it !!

Wayne

[Good-Day]

This is more than likely not the right place for this, but I passed through the Cabelas in Lacey Wa last weekend and they had a rather nice looking KU in the case along with several other Luger's

In case somebody was interested