A story on fake gold

alvin · 03-30-2015, 10:21 PM

Watched a youtube video, talking about fake gold.

The story happened in Nanking recently (there is a book in Barnes & Nobles, "Rape of Nanking, 1937", same city). A couple opened a pawn store there, their main business is trading gold stuffs, such as bracelets, necklaces, rings, etc. They pay cash buying gold, and resell, there is a price difference, so they make living. They have been in this business for more than a decade.

One day, the husband was out, two Manchurian women came to the store saying they urgently need cash and wanted to sell their jewelries. The wife tried to persuade sellers borrowing some cash paying interest instead of selling their gold. But sellers felt that amount of money was not enough and insisted selling a gold bracelet and a gold necklace, total weight was about two ounces. The wife carefully check the items visually, color was correct for 999 gold, and she cut one end of the jewelry open with a sharp knife, checked inside carefully under a loupe, also looks good. So she paid $2000 cash to the sellers.

A few hours after this transaction, the husband came back. After viewing the items, he felt the overall color tone was a little bit off. He's upset, and decided to use another conventional method to test -- he used a torch burning those two pieces. After the items cooling down, the color did not change. That's very positive. Most fake gold jewelry cannot stand torch burning without tarnishing. He relaxed..

Arizona Slim · 03-30-2015, 10:29 PM

Alvin, is there more to the story then that? waiting to hear the rest.

Lon

alvin · 03-30-2015, 10:36 PM

A few days later, the husband chatted with a few neighbors, who are also in pawn store business. To everyone's surprise, they found all of them bought gold bracelet and gold necklace recently. And sellers were two Manchurian women. From store monitoring video, all business owners agree, "sellers are same two women". Intuition told them, "something is wrong". Were those jewelry stolen from somewhere?? Or Fake?? There is no report on robbery, or stealing recently though. Although they could not tell jewelry being genuine or fake, they reported this to police.

After police heard this, the police also felt there must be a trap. "They have been in this business for long time. They are domain experts. If they cannot tell any problem from those items, of course I cannot tell either", police told reporter.

alvin · 03-30-2015, 10:46 PM

Fortunately, there is a "Precious Metal Checking Service" in the city. Over there, the service has an expensive advanced equipment -- just putting an item on a scanner, the device can tell how much gold is contained. So those owners went there. After checking report coming back, everyone was surprised -- the report says the item is at least 22K (92% gold). Say, this was not 99.9% gold as they were bought, but at 92%, ..... at least that's not the worst case scenario.... pawn store owners breathed a little bit.

But police still felt something not right. "If those two sellers selling you 22K gold as 24K, they lose money!! because they have to pay hotel, eating, traveling, etc. those two women had their 'business cost', how could this be 22K... no juice for sellers..."

alvin · 03-30-2015, 11:03 PM

So, the police and business owners came back to the Checking Service. This time, the inspector totally cut the jewelry into thin slices and checked them under high-X microscopes. They found some white micro crystal structures the cuts. Then, they used complex chemical method to identify what's that -- the white contents turned out being a type of metal called "ruthenium". This type of metal's melting temperature is much higher than gold, regular torch could not tarnish it. Spectrum analyzer that they used earlier could only check surface, but could not find this type mixture. The gold contents of the jewelry is about 50% (fake maker has to use some gold, so the color is yellow), and ruthenium's price is much lower than gold.

So, that's the story of fake gold. Even a group of professionals were cheated. Water is deep.

sheepherder · 03-30-2015, 11:08 PM

...

...

.

Edward Tinker · 03-30-2015, 11:21 PM

I am unsure of the point about this?

People who deal in gold have many means to test it?

What has this got to do with luger collecting?

alvin · 03-30-2015, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

...

....

Don't worry. It happened in Nanking, not upper state of New York

But I am not sure how coin collectors checking their items. In imagination, coin is harder to fake than jewelry -- jewelry does not have a fixed pattern, so you cannot tell its fake or not by its appearance. If it's yellow, heavy, soft, and not tarnishing under fire... what else it can be? Obviously, there are lots of tricks in that business.

[Edit] BTW, here is ruthenium. It's also the first time I heard of this kind of metal so I looked it up in wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutheni...a_half_bar.jpg

Diver6106 · 03-31-2015, 04:34 PM

I don't think element Ruthenium (Ru 44) would substitute for Gold (Au 79), the weight would be too low for the volume. That is why they plate Lead (Pb 82) with gold to try and fake it. This is easily verified by weighing it then putting it in water to see how much is displaced - weight and volume would be far off for Ru. Better with lead, but still off.

03-30-2015, 10:21 PM	#1
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	A story on fake gold Watched a youtube video, talking about fake gold. The story happened in Nanking recently (there is a book in Barnes & Nobles, "Rape of Nanking, 1937", same city). A couple opened a pawn store there, their main business is trading gold stuffs, such as bracelets, necklaces, rings, etc. They pay cash buying gold, and resell, there is a price difference, so they make living. They have been in this business for more than a decade. One day, the husband was out, two Manchurian women came to the store saying they urgently need cash and wanted to sell their jewelries. The wife tried to persuade sellers borrowing some cash paying interest instead of selling their gold. But sellers felt that amount of money was not enough and insisted selling a gold bracelet and a gold necklace, total weight was about two ounces. The wife carefully check the items visually, color was correct for 999 gold, and she cut one end of the jewelry open with a sharp knife, checked inside carefully under a loupe, also looks good. So she paid $2000 cash to the sellers. A few hours after this transaction, the husband came back. After viewing the items, he felt the overall color tone was a little bit off. He's upset, and decided to use another conventional method to test -- he used a torch burning those two pieces. After the items cooling down, the color did not change. That's very positive. Most fake gold jewelry cannot stand torch burning without tarnishing. He relaxed..

03-30-2015, 11:08 PM	#6
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	... ... . __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

03-31-2015, 04:34 PM	#9
Diver6106 User Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Mt. Vernon VA Posts: 245 Thanks: 1,433 Thanked 117 Times in 75 Posts	I don't think element Ruthenium (Ru 44) would substitute for Gold (Au 79), the weight would be too low for the volume. That is why they plate Lead (Pb 82) with gold to try and fake it. This is easily verified by weighing it then putting it in water to see how much is displaced - weight and volume would be far off for Ru. Better with lead, but still off. Attached Thumbnails

03-30-2015, 10:29 PM	#2
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	Alvin, is there more to the story then that? waiting to hear the rest. Lon

03-30-2015, 10:36 PM	#3
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	A few days later, the husband chatted with a few neighbors, who are also in pawn store business. To everyone's surprise, they found all of them bought gold bracelet and gold necklace recently. And sellers were two Manchurian women. From store monitoring video, all business owners agree, "sellers are same two women". Intuition told them, "something is wrong". Were those jewelry stolen from somewhere?? Or Fake?? There is no report on robbery, or stealing recently though. Although they could not tell jewelry being genuine or fake, they reported this to police. After police heard this, the police also felt there must be a trap. "They have been in this business for long time. They are domain experts. If they cannot tell any problem from those items, of course I cannot tell either", police told reporter.

03-30-2015, 10:46 PM	#4
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Fortunately, there is a "Precious Metal Checking Service" in the city. Over there, the service has an expensive advanced equipment -- just putting an item on a scanner, the device can tell how much gold is contained. So those owners went there. After checking report coming back, everyone was surprised -- the report says the item is at least 22K (92% gold). Say, this was not 99.9% gold as they were bought, but at 92%, ..... at least that's not the worst case scenario.... pawn store owners breathed a little bit. But police still felt something not right. "If those two sellers selling you 22K gold as 24K, they lose money!! because they have to pay hotel, eating, traveling, etc. those two women had their 'business cost', how could this be 22K... no juice for sellers..."

03-30-2015, 11:03 PM	#5
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	So, the police and business owners came back to the Checking Service. This time, the inspector totally cut the jewelry into thin slices and checked them under high-X microscopes. They found some white micro crystal structures the cuts. Then, they used complex chemical method to identify what's that -- the white contents turned out being a type of metal called "ruthenium". This type of metal's melting temperature is much higher than gold, regular torch could not tarnish it. Spectrum analyzer that they used earlier could only check surface, but could not find this type mixture. The gold contents of the jewelry is about 50% (fake maker has to use some gold, so the color is yellow), and ruthenium's price is much lower than gold. So, that's the story of fake gold. Even a group of professionals were cheated. Water is deep.

03-30-2015, 11:21 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	I am unsure of the point about this? People who deal in gold have many means to test it? What has this got to do with luger collecting?