Help ID-ing an early luger

[Dwight Gruber]

Bishop333,

Your "helper spring" is a very interesting addition, seems like a good idea. The toggle-stop strike is not a very useful diagnostic, this one seems to my eyes to be "harsher" than many I have seen.

I'm still concerned about the long-term ability for your Luger to handle full-strength 9mm ammo. There was a reason that DWM went to a coil-spring arrangement in later guns.

Try finding a standard 9mm Luger to examine, rack back the toggle and compare it to the strength of your "helpered" gun. My guess is that you will find the coil-spring 9mm provides -much- more force.

--Dwight

[Ron Wood]

Bishop 333,

I have been following this thread with much interest, but have not had time to add my thoughts. You have a very neat Luger that I admire with mixed emotions. It is a fine example of the gunsmithâ??s art and must be a real treat to shoot. The downside is that someone chose to modify a very early 1900 that still employed the Type I thumb safety. In original, unmodified condition it would be a collectorâ??s treasure.

The guys have done a good job in voicing their opinions and identifying the sight. I agree with Dwight that the â??toggle slapâ?� on the rear of the frame is considerably harsher than normally encountered, and the helper spring has probably prolonged the life of your gun significantly. Without the spring, it probably would have experienced â??spontaneous disassemblyâ?� at some point. Take the suggestion for reduced loads to heart.

For the record, the very first 9mm Parabellum, the 1902 â??Fat Barrelâ?� Luger, still retained the leaf spring, albeit â??tunedâ?� for the more substantial recoil. The addition of the helper spring in your Luger is an attempt to tune the 7.65mm spring for the heftier load.

Further modification to incorporate a coil mainspring will undoubtedly preserve what life is left in the toggle train of your Luger. This is not a simple change however, since it involves adding a web to the grip frame to accommodate the coil spring, spring guide and bell crank. It is a feasible undertaking, since this is precisely the modification performed on a few 1900 Dutch Luger prototypes, either by or for the Dutch, to meet their specifications for reliability.

Thank you for sharing the photos of your special Luger. It is a very enjoyable presentation.

(Venerable! Thank you Dwight, you are too kind.)

[bishop333]

All good advice that I am taking very seriously. I believe the best thing I can do (if I shoot it) is to make a low power round as suggested. Hopefully this will keep the rear toggle from smacking the frame hard and keep the life of the gun up.

What is the "lowest" 9mm round you guys have seen in a Luger?

I will also compare my return spring strength with one that has the compression spring. See how much this "Helper spring" really helps.

Rick: Excellent, thanks for the "SS&D" de-code. Will see what I can find on them.

In conclusion I now know I have a bit of a Franken-Luger. Good thing is it has been done very well and with care. The result is also a Luger that is a hoot to fire and super accurate. I'm going to clean her up, run low loads, and enjoy it for years to come.

Thanks again guys, this forum is fantastic!

Bishop333