Auto-Ordnance 1927-A5 Pistol on GB

[sheepherder]

Very strange auction...On GB...By Numrich...

Auto-Ordnance 1927-A5 .45 ACP Semi-Auto Pistol 45 Auction # 425248524

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=425248524



Marked 'For Export Only'...

Cocking knob is strange...But it has a finned barrel, which certain unnamed perverted collectors here will love...

[ithacaartist]

Another one of these just sold a couple weeks ago--slightly different, with the M1 straight forestock and a shorter, 10.5" barrel. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=422636720 Both reached the $750 range;these sell new for just under $1k. Why is this strange, Rich? Numrich has been selling parts at online auctions for a while, why not this pistol?

[sheepherder]

Their guns side does sell lots of pistols, but this is the first I've seen marked 'for export only'. The caveat about its being neither a pistol or rifle, as supposedly documented by ATF, and classed simply as a 'firearm' is odd as well. And they state "Therefore, a pistol permit is not required".

They don't mention if it is new or used...But that it was manufactured in 1995...

You would think if it was NOS they would say so...Or that if it was used, they would say that...

And they state that sale is prohibited in nine states...

The GB username 'gunsnotparts4sale' is a new one to me as well, but I don't follow their gun sales, just the parts...Maybe it's not Numrich at all (although being West Hurley is pretty much a giveaway)...

I'd say that all qualifies as strange...

They're moving out of NYS, so I'm wondering if this is some item that was never sold/shipped way back when, and is only now surfacing and being offered...Sarco has these sales every month; things they found in their warehouse that were never inventoried and are only now being discovered...

Who knows? Maybe someone bought it years ago and rather than surrender/register it, sold it back to them...

It's up to $960 now with 3 days to go...

BTW: A buddy had a Thompson many years ago; I handled it (and was surprised at how heavy it was) but I don't recall the protruding lip on the front of the magazine body...

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

...I don't recall the protruding lip on the front of the magazine body...

That's the way the mags are. I have several originals, four of them manufactured by Seymour, to use in my semi. The modified original 30-shot that came with it didn't have its mag catch hole done very well, it didn't lock up very tightly, its lips were bent, and it jiggled and rotated all over the place; and because of this, it would misfeed every time a round was stripped that had been on the left side of the stack. This was NY compliant (pre-ban) when I bought the carbine, but since NY's stupid S.A.F.E. act, all these mags now reside with my son in Ohio. My plan is to chop them down to ten round capacity. I've seen mags thus modified on eBay, but the modification was a terrible job, and I can do way better. Even though Thompson mags are very numerous, new stashes being discovered all the time, this plan makes orthodox collectors cringe.

[sheepherder]

Why not spot-weld in a U shaped plate and shorten the spring rather than chop it...The SAFE Act allows modified/shortened magazines...But few mfg's/distributors want to go to the trouble...

I was scrolling thru Herr Cuomo's SAFE web site last week; some yahoo on GB wouldn't sell AK buttstocks to NYS...I asked why and he answered that AK wood was banned in NYS...I asked how an oblong piece of wood could be banned but he never replied with any written/Internet posted ban on furniture, and I couldn't find any either...Just the ban on folding and/or telescoping buttstocks...And it wasn't clear if it was just the stock or if the stock was banned if mounted on the rifle...

Dave - Does that lip on the magazine actually function as part of the feed ramp??? I see daylight in front of the mag...

[skeeter4206]

I recently saw what I thought was pretty interesting of an AR that was being sold as a pistol. Hmmm, everything on it is exactly what one would buy if they were buying a regular AR-15 with the 16" barrel that a normal citizen can how. Except it had a 12" barrel and the butt stock only had the tube that holds the buffer inside it. So, the grey area according to the gun shop that was selling it is the fact that it only has half the butt stock. So they are allowed to have the shortened barrel and only the buffer tube on the back side of the AR.

So, complete the butt stock and someone can have an AR-15 with a 12" barrel. Interesting!

[ithacaartist]

Glenn, this would be the same as if someone combined one of the Thompson "pistols" with a lower from a semi carbine...as long as there are no LEOs hiding behind the bristles of their toothbrush, or if they live in one of the lucky states where it is possible to own a SBR by paying for the tax stamp.

Rich, I know what you mean about the daylight--there's about an 1/8" gap between the lower/front lip of the stick mag and the feed funnel. I call it a funnel because it's shaped like that. The guidance for the round has to incorporate the fact that when the ammo comes off the top of the stick mag, it alternates in left and right offsets, and needs to be guided to center horizontally as well. The rounds do skim across the top of the lip. If it were simply an edge, the case mouth would be snagged, so they're formed/radius-ed out just a tad.

[ithacaartist]

The daylight has been explained by the seller of this contraption: http://www.brpguns.com/magazine-enha...ttern-subguns/

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

The daylight has been explained by the seller of this contraption: http://www.brpguns.com/magazine-enha...ttern-subguns/

Hmmmmm...I had already tentatively decided that the gap was because the drum slid in from the side (and was thicker) while the stick mags slid up using the trigger guard rail (and were thinner)...

That 'device' was not designed for beauty...

Interesting that the receiver in the pic is an M1 Thompson...

Edit: Sold for $2,170.17 and 35 bids...I guess they got their money's worth out of that...

[alanint]

This is a solution to a non-existent problem. It is all about magazine lock-up. Semi autos were inexplicably supplied with an oval shaped magazine catch and magazines altered with an oval hole, (probably Auto Ordnance's feeble attempt to corner the aftermarket sale of magazines versus the buyer being able to access the tons of cheap surplus mags out there). They only succeeded in ruining a good number of original TSMG magazines.
Buy a GI magazine catch, (or alter yours to a round configuration) and buy surplus magazines. The round hole on the original catch and mags locks up snug with minimal discernable wobble.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by alanint

This is a solution to a non-existent problem. It is all about magazine lock-up. Semi autos were inexplicably supplied with an oval shaped magazine catch and magazines altered with an oval hole, (probably Auto Ordnance's feeble attempt to corner the aftermarket sale of magazines versus the buyer being able to access the tons of cheap surplus mags out there). They only succeeded in ruining a good number of original TSMG magazines.
Buy a GI magazine catch, (or alter yours to a round configuration) and buy surplus magazines. The round hole on the original catch and mags locks up snug with minimal discernable wobble.

Yes and no, Doug... Although this getup would assist in the badly-modified stick mags from the factory--which does whang all around and misfeed--I've had no problem at all with the original ones I've carefully adapted to the gun. Emphasis on careful. They lock up tight and feed great.

I just checked to make absolutely certain, and the mag catch on mine is round, not oval. The holes in the adapted mags are oval, however; this due to the need to raise the top edge of the hole the 0.10" so it can be engaged by the mag catch on the semis. The story I've heard about this dimension is that it is the same amount the upper has "shrunk" in the redesigned semis to eliminate any reasonable possibility of converting them to full auto. For future adaptations, I'm considering removal of material from the top edge of the catch, in the same increment, to avoid the need to butcher the mags. This would result in the business end of the catch presenting an oval shape.

[alanint]

Always preferable to modify a single part versus a whole bunch of them.

[rhuff]

I know for certain that I won't be purchasing that "thing" to install on my 1928 TSMG. I have zero problems using the original Thompson 20 and 30 round mags. Of course, the full auto fires from open bolt, where as the semi auto fires from a closed bolt. That may cause a bit of problem in the feeding of the semis, I can't say.

[alanint]

Here is an interesting presentation put out by my friend David Albert. It concentrates on Thompsons but is applicable to virtually any model of collectable. This was in response to another friend who stored his original, Savage Thompson in a reproduction Cavalry Case in his safe and ended up rusting his beautiful, original TSMG. Aside from the fact that canvas captures moisture, many of these cheap, foreign reproductions have harmful chemicals in the fibers which will do a serious number on a gun's finish.

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/dalbert/T...ure%202010.pdf

[John Sabato]

WOW ! The auction closed at $2,170.17 !

Now my question is why so high above retail? The "FOR EXPORT ONLY" markings?

[alanint]

A ridiculous price for what is basically a "swoose".

Who would want to own the pistol with a Carbine lenght barrel?

[rhuff]

Obviously somebody does, and they are willing to pay dearly to get it!! I just don't understand what I am seeing here. Am I missing something?

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by rhuff

Obviously somebody does, and they are willing to pay dearly to get it!! I just don't understand what I am seeing here. Am I missing something?

Maybe a SBR without the $200 tax??? Just add buttstock...and adapter...

I never looked to see how the barrel attaches...Standard threaded barre???

[John Sabato]

Yes standard threaded barrel.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Yes standard threaded barrel.

I had thought that, but looking at that adapter pic, it looks like a collar over a socketed barrel stub (no thread on barrel itself), kind of like the AR-15 uses...