Hi Power Question

[ugafx4]

Hopefully there are some Hi Power experts to help me out with this. I have located a rig that was claimed as "all matching". The frame and slide are matching however the barrel has no SN and a waa613 mark when it should be a waa103 like the slide.

Is this usual?

Thank you for your help!

[lew1]

Sorry. The barrel should be numbered to the pistol and be WaA103 marked.

Someplace along the way, the barrel was replaced. You have a shooter.

But the 1941 dated holsters are not common.


.

[318is_Parabellum]

I own two "Nazi" High Powers, a mid "a" block, and a late (s/n 200,xxx) no suffix. Both of mine are fixed sight models, and have WaA140 stampings. I'm no expert, but I've researched these and studied these pistols to a certain extent. I wouldn't call myself an "expert", but I know something about 'em.

I'm fairly certain that I've never seen a High Power that did not have the serial number stamped on the barrel, nor have I seen one with "mismatched" inspection stamps such as this one. If I recall correctly, WaA613 was the very early inspector for these, and only inspected the first few thousands of pistols taken into German service. WaA103 was next, and that inspection stamp was only used for a short while, and was superseded by the Wa140 inspection stamp/inspector.

It is my best guess that the barrel on the example you posted was replaced (for reasons unknown) by an earlier barrel (likely a spare part, as it lacks pre-war Belgian proofs). The example you posted obviously has the tangent sight, and if I recall correctly, under German supervision these tangent sighted slides and slotted frames were all produced before occupation and were used until they ran out, and then the fixed sight variant was produced exclusively.

An important question remains: is the example pictured slotted for a detachable stock? Given the s/n is in the 78,000 range, it shouldn't be.

[ugafx4]

Have not bought it yet, luckily.

The grip is NOT slotted for a stock.

I find it very interesting that the barrel has that stamp where I usually see serial numbers. 318s, you mention a field replacement. Did they have "armourers replacement" parts like lugers or k98s?

I was excited about this find but that barrel means a significant hit to the price. Where would you put it at as a "mismatch" shooter?

Also, the knowledge everyone here has is incredible and I am very lucky to learn from all of you.

[318is_Parabellum]

Ugafx4,
Pure conjecture on my part, but I would feel comfortable answering "yes" to your question regarding the existence of 'armourer's spares'. I arrive at this conclusion based simply on the large number of pistols produced, something on the order of roughly 375,000 (from roughly s/n 10k to 206,000, then 1a to approx. 100000a, then 1b to approx. 63000b) were produced under German supervision by FN, and these numbers do not include the few thousands of pistols that were already in service and were 'captured' by the Germans and pressed into service.

Yes, I would call it a 'mismatch shooter', especially while negotiating a price! Nevertheless, the early WaA613 proofed barrel is interesting in its own right, though it certainly does devalue the piece quite a bit.

I would certainly like to have this one! I don't have any examples of the "type 2 variant" (tangent sight, no stock slot), though I hope to, someday. Nice find!

[lew1]

WaA 613 marked Hi Powers are found in the 44, 45 and 46 thousand range of the pre war Hi Powers. These have commercial markings and are partially marked with Belgian military markings.

Starting with 50,000 (serial number) to around 52,200, the pistols had Belgian commercial markings and WaA 613 on the trigger guard. In that range there was a switch in the markings - the Belgian military markings were discontinued and the WaA 613 and the test proof were on the slide and frame and barrel. Also the serial number placement on the barrel was changed.

After 52,200 the stock slot was no longer.

About 10 to 15 thousand of the Hi Powers were marked with WaA 613.

As to the barrel, it could be an 'armourer's part or it just could be one where the serial number was removed. Remember, there were no working parts on the barrel to break. In any event it is mismatched and not collectible. Also the finish on the Hi Power is poor as indicated by the pictures - which removes much of the collector's value.

[lew1]

Also should mention that there are legit Hi Powers that have both inspection stamps. (WaA 613 and WaA 103) (WaA 103 and WaA 140).

These occurred around the change over in inspectors. I guess that one inspector had started the process and when the second inspector came along, he thought ----- well I am supposed to mark everything, so he re-stamped it.

[ugafx4]

I am having the gentleman pull the barrel and see if there is anything on the other side. It is my understanding WaA 613 barrels were s/n on the other side of the barrel. Perhaps there will be a WaA 103 stamp and serial number over there or just perhaps a WaA 103 stamp. Could be interesting.

[lew1]

Barrels were numbered on the reverse side in the 50,000 rangn and many in the 51,000 range. But at least as early as 51998, the barrel serial number could be seen thru the ejection port. The change occurred somewhere between 51,799 and 51,998. So the bulk of WaA 613 Hi Powers will have the serial number where it can be seen thru the ejection port.

All barrel serial numbers for WaA 103 Hi Powers should be seen thru the ejection port.

[318is_Parabellum]

Thanks for correcting my erroneous info, gentlemen. I didn't realize that FN had made so many (50k!) before occupation. The possibility that this barrel could be correct hadn't occurred to me, due to the fact that I'd *never* seen or heard of a barrel with a hidden serial number. It was my understanding that all of these pistols, pre-war and occupation both, were numbered similarly -- slide, barrel, and frame. Fascinating!!

[ugafx4]

Well unfortunately the barrel had the incorrect serial on it. Who knows when or where it was replaced but as 318is mentioned it is a mismatched shooter.

I had hoped this would not be the case.

I will keep on my search for a matching hi power!

[lew1]

Originally Posted by 318is_Parabellum

Thanks for correcting my erroneous info, gentlemen. I didn't realize that FN had made so many (50k!) before occupation. The possibility that this barrel could be correct hadn't occurred to me, due to the fact that I'd *never* seen or heard of a barrel with a hidden serial number. It was my understanding that all of these pistols, pre-war and occupation both, were numbered similarly -- slide, barrel, and frame. Fascinating!!

Considering the serial number of the Hi Power, there was 'no possibility' that the barrel was correct due to the fact that the serial number could not be seen thru the ejection port,

The Hi Powers were all numbered similarly -- slide, barrel and frame.

But below 51,700 approx, the number was on the reverse side of the barrel. Above 51997 approx, the barrel was numbered so that the serial number could be seen thru the ejection port.

FN made Hi Powers up to the very low 47,000 serial numbers before the Germans took over. The Germans started at serial number 50,000. No legit Hi Power has been seen, to date, in the gap.

[lew1]

Originally Posted by ugafx4

Well unfortunately the barrel had the incorrect serial on it. Who knows when or where it was replaced but as 318is mentioned it is a mismatched shooter.

I had hoped this would not be the case.

I will keep on my search for a matching hi power!

You might want to inquire of the seller if he would sell the holster separate from the pistol.