Malfunction loading 7.65 Para

[bobpuxi]

Dears,
I have a 1938 7.65 Para and I almost constantly have loading malfunction. The barrel is not a matching number so I can suppose the gun was in 9mm originally.
I wonder if any of you can help me.

I'm attaching 2 pics of the problem.
Many thanks for your help.
Bob

[alanint]

You don't mention the type of magazine you are using. One posibility is a new mag with better springs, which will present the round sooner and not allow the bolt to override a round before it is raised high enough.
Another issue may be an incorrect mainspring. This Luger was originally a 9mm, so it may still contain the stronger 9mm mainspring, which would also explain the bolt coming forward faster than a round can be brought up to meet it.

[bobpuxi]

Thank you,
I thought both problem, the mag is not matching either, but I dont know how to evaluate the mag spring.
I just ordered a set of springs from Gunsprings
LUGER (NEW) 7.65 & 9mm SERVICE PAK TYPE-II and a 36Lb mainspring...I hope I did right.
Bob

[rhuff]

I agree with Alanint 100%. I have a 30Luger DWM that was acting exactly as yours. It took me some time of trial and error with different springs and mags, and ammo, but I finally got the "correct formula" for my Luger. They can be very frustrating, but they are only a machine.....when all things are correct, including the ammo, they will function correctly. They are fun to shoot when things work as expected. Good luck.

[alanint]

The best recourse for the magazines is to order a couple of Mec Gar Luger magazines, which the best aftermarket magazine out there. If all else fails, you can send your gun to Luger Doc or perhaps GT for a complete tuning.

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by alanint

The best recourse for the magazines is to order a couple of Mec Gar Luger magazines, which the best aftermarket magazine out there. If all else fails, you can send your gun to Luger Doc or perhaps GT for a complete tuning.

This fella lives in Italy. Is that going to be a problem for him to send his Luger to people here in the USA? I don't know....I am just asking for my own information.

[alanint]

Didn't see the Italy tag. Yes, it would be a problem....

[mrerick]

Bob,

Count the number of turns in the pistol's recoil spring (within the frame). A recoil spring for a 9mm Mauser has 21 turns. Your receiver is from a 9mm Mauser. If it's serial (on the left) matches the frame's serial number digits (above the trigger guard) you may still have the 9mm Mauser recoil spring in the frame. (Just realized I am echoing Doug's comments above...)

Try a spring with 18 or 19 turns. If this doesn't work, it's possible to try nipping off coils one at a time to see if things improve. Use good hard tools and safety glasses!

How strong is your magazine follower spring? Is it very easy, or difficult to load cartridges? Which magazine do you have? (please show a photo).

The timing is a balance based upon the recoil spring's strength (which I believe should be less for a .30 Luger), the magazine spring's strength and the firmness of your hold on the pistol. A firm consistent hold should allow the pistol to cycle consistently.

Are you reloading your own .30 Luger cartridges, or using commercial ammunition (and if so, which one)?

Marc

[LugerMan.com]

Originally Posted by bobpuxi

Dears,
I have a 1938 7.65 Para and I almost constantly have loading malfunction. The barrel is not a matching number so I can suppose the gun was in 9mm originally.
I wonder if any of you can help me.

I'm attaching 2 pics of the problem.
Many thanks for your help.
Bob

This miss-feed is very typical of the 30 Luger.
It happens when the main spring is too strong and bolt does not go all the way back on the reload, instead of the bolt face the cartridge gets picked up by the hold open cut in the breach block and driven forward b y it it gets jammed by the face of the breach block.

I usually take the main spring out and cut one coil off,

then assemble and test fire, if it does not work , you do it again, one coil at the time.

Sometimes you have to cut 3 coils of the spring till it's starts working reliably.

Because you have the stronger then needed spring, you do not need a new one, you can experiment with the one you have.

If after 3 coils are off , and it is not working still, then it's something else.

You also got to make sure the toggle moves freely in the slide ...

[DavidJayUden]

One test may be : does the hold open work once the last round is fired? That MAY show if the toggle is being driven back far enough by recoil before you start cutting.
dju

[LugerMan.com]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

One test may be : does the hold open work once the last round is fired? That MAY show if the toggle is being driven back far enough by recoil before you start cutting.
dju

Thanks for that addition,
that is how i test when I cut a coil of the spring, just forgot to list it in the instruction. That only works if your mag is fresh and your hold open is holding fine.

Because addition one other factor in the problem solving may mislead you in other direction.

[Lugerdoc]

THe original recoil spring for a 7.65mmP luger had 17 turns. In addition to that and the better mag, it probably would not hurt to polish the feed ramps of your barrel & frame. TH

[sheepherder]

...But did/do the 7.65 and 9mm springs have the same diameter wire???

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

it probably would not hurt to polish the feed ramps of your barrel & frame. TH

This treatment helped out my troublesome Luger a great amount. I also "broke the edge" that exists on the lower frame portion of the feed ramp. I did NOT change the angles/geometry of the feed ramp in any way.

[bobpuxi]

Hi all,
thank you for all your suggestions.
Tomorrow afternoon (your morning) Ill modify the spring and Ill try if it will work.
Sometimes the fired cartridge is not even expelled, few times it remains in the chamber sometimes half out.
I just received an aftermarket mag to try but Ill definitively cut the spring that has 21 turns!
On saturday morning I have an ex ordnance challenge, and if my luger will work Ill definitively can win since at 25 mt it goes at 8-10 always.
ill let you know.
Really curious.
Thank you again, it looks its a great forum !

[bobpuxi]

Originally Posted by mrerick

Bob,

Count the number of turns in the pistol's recoil spring (within the frame). A recoil spring for a 9mm Mauser has 21 turns. Your receiver is from a 9mm Mauser. If it's serial (on the left) matches the frame's serial number digits (above the trigger guard) you may still have the 9mm Mauser recoil spring in the frame. (Just realized I am echoing Doug's comments above...)

Try a spring with 18 or 19 turns. If this doesn't work, it's possible to try nipping off coils one at a time to see if things improve. Use good hard tools and safety glasses!

How strong is your magazine follower spring? Is it very easy, or difficult to load cartridges? Which magazine do you have? (please show a photo).

The timing is a balance based upon the recoil spring's strength (which I believe should be less for a .30 Luger), the magazine spring's strength and the firmness of your hold on the pistol. A firm consistent hold should allow the pistol to cycle consistently.

Are you reloading your own .30 Luger cartridges, or using commercial ammunition (and if so, which one)?

Marc

The cartridges are 93grs Fiocchi, I still not reload them since I'm not sure if my luger is really working.
If Ill solve the problem Ill definitively reload as I'm doing for my Mauser K98.
Thk again

[bobpuxi]

Ciao All,
I have to thank you for all the suggestions, since cutting the mainspring of 2.5 turns the luger started working properly. So I did the challenge of ex-ordnance and I got the first prize with 93.8 at 15mt with commercial Fiocchi FMJ 93 grs.
The baby is extremely precise and although there was strong wind it did well.
The actual problem is that sometimes it does not activate the percussor and I have to reload the cartridge.
Thank you again
Rob

[alanint]

Congratulations, Roberto!!

[rhuff]

Glad to hear that you got your Luger running correctly and it is reliable, plus you demonstrated how accurate a Luger will shoot in the proper hands.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by bobpuxi

I have to thank you for all the suggestions, since cutting the mainspring of 2.5 turns the luger started working properly.

Great!!!

Did you have to stretch the spring out after trimming the 2 1/2 coils???